Consensus on Redline Oils?

[kalbri]

Bror, I am trying to decide whether to try Redline right now or the Schaffers 7000. What made you decide to go with the Schaffers when you used to run Redline? Will you go back to Redline or are you planning to stay with Schaffers? What would you do if you had a new car (you have mentioned that you are not planning on keeping your car all that much longer). Are you pleased with Redline after running it for a while? Thanks.

 

[dragboat]

Night Owl This question has not been asked and I think it is the most important one of all. What car make and engine and how is it used? That would be the deciding factor for me at least in choosing an oil.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

The moly does not cause oxidation. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact. MoDTC is multifunctional; it is an ANTI-oxidant as well as FM/EP additive. I don't know if this is exactly what they use, but it is probably similar or possibly an even better version Red Line doesnt use anything like MoS2. And that oxidation is a rumor probably started by that moron Amsoil rep with those bogus Red Line analysis on his website. Probably wasn't helped by the fact that the pentaerithrytol ester causes the FTIR to provide meaningless oxidation numbers and people jumping to conclusions instead of asking questions. I should have a VOA of 10w40 soon...(lab is re-running it). Also should have UOA of my first run in a few days. And Scott...I would choose Red Line, but double that interval. I don't see the point of 5k changes. Red Line does provide the most protection. There is no question about it. The question is do you want to pay for it? I really don't find the cost that bad, especially with extended drains and getting it for $7/qt online. What's $20 more a year?? And that is with same interval as M1. I beleive Red Line can go longer than M1 easily. So you could make it same cost.

 

[kalbri]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry: I'd use Redline over the SuperSyn. I don't think they are using enough boundary layer lube protection in the SS. Thus the latest move to use a small amount of moly to compensate.

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Terry, Is Redlines lack of API certification something to be concerned about at all?

 

[sprintman]

kalbri RL can't get API because of the amount of EP/anti-wear. It's not a weakness, it's a feature!!

 

[Toy4x4]

What about the cleaning (detergents) capabilities of Redline? Comparable to M1 or Sch. S7000?

 

[TooSlick]

Night Owl, I'd run Redline and test it several times after 7500 miles. I've seen some baseline analysis data on one of their formulations recently and it looks pretty decent to me. Mobil is kinda stuck for two reasons ...The first is that they have to compete with other mass marketed synlubes selling for $3.00-$4.50/qt. This limits the basestocks and additive chemistries they can use and still sell in that price range. They are also selling an API licensed oil, so that caps the amount of ZDDP they can blend into their formulations - at least with their 0w-30/5w-30/10w-30.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Many people who care about thier motors would consider API certification the "kiss of death". You certainly won't see any serious race cars using an API certified oil.

 

[Bror Jace]

kalbri, don't read too much into my switching. i like to try different things. And, after Bob going on and on about Schaeffer, I wanted to give them a whirl. I'll test it and then decide what I'll use in my next car. My current car is down on power after the head gasket transplant and I won't keep it another year. Speaking of which, I didn't exactly give Red Line a fair shake. My car had coolant contamination the entire time Red Line was used. Still, if you discount the bearing wear, the other metals looked darn good. Jason, good points, I agreed with all of them 'cept personally, I'd start with a 7,500 mile interval, like TooSlick recommended. Oh, and I think I was the first to call the API starburst symbol "The Kiss of Death." Hugh, as I stated before, my Red Line oil was always contaminated ... and it was always a little dark at least partially due to this. I have to think that you won't have a sludging problem with Red Line but with 7,000+ drain intervals, your car's motor won't look perfectly clean, either. --- Bror Jace

 

[Terry]

kalbri, API cert is not important to me. The formulation is. I just finished a mini test of Redline 10w-30 in a 3.0L V6 Toyota sludge monster engine. We are verifying the #'s but in 6500 miles it thickened to 40W grade. I'll post the final results after we verify the test. The oil may have reacted or clashed severly with the previous oil residue. Also the initial tests show massive Moly depletion which is also not characteristic of Redline. I generally have had good results with redline until this.

 

[Intelman34]

To me, Redline is only worth it in High Performance/ High Revving Engines. I use it in my Z28 with the LT4 Hotcam. In my 5.0L Thunderbird, I plan on using Mobil 1. For the rearend, there is nothing better than Redline 75w90 and I use it in both cars with perfect results. I have the Redline D4 ATF in the Z28 transmission and I am VERY please with the results. I havent gotten a chance to flush and fill the Thunderbird with it (the Bird has/had the common Torque Converter shimmy), but I did see I could add a little Redline to its trans. I got in about 1/4 of a quart, drove around for a few miles, and bam, the torque converter shimmy was gone. Redline D4 ATF Rocks! The Redline Fuel System Cleaner will make a noticeable difference on a car that has never had any sort of cleaner run through it! The 5.0 idled and ran much smoother. I also use Redline Water Wetter. It dropped my cooling system temps a few degrees, but I mainly use it to keep everything lubricated. Hopefully that is a good rundown on all the Redline products!

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Just an outside opinion here but looks like a lot of personal opinion being thrown around about redline. Kinda like another guy I talked with the other day.. Uses RP and loves it.. has talked all his friends, patners, family and who ever else into RP. Asked what his analysis's looked like and what else he's done to establish it's quality, told me he hasn't done anything, just stated "My truck runs great so it's a good oil". (guess I can't argue with that logic huh.). Oh yeah, he also stated amsoil's oil stunk and shouldn't be used.. again, nothing more than his opinion. My point is this, There appears there is some here that think there is no better than redline.. I'm thinking that is a rather bold statement and would think there may be a number of others to disagree with that opinion.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry: ... I just finished a mini test of Redline 10w-30 in a 3.0L V6 Toyota sludge monster engine. We are verifying the #'s but in 6500 miles it thickened to 40W grade. I'll post the final results after we verify the test. The oil may have reacted or clashed severly with the previous oil residue. Also the initial tests show massive Moly depletion which is also not characteristic of Redline. I generally have had good results with redline until this.

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Terry, don't you think since this is a "sludge monster" that there would be some sludge in the motor? Introduction of a high ester oil would cause a lot of clean up...(hence thickening and depletion) I say run the full auto-rx treatment Frank recommends for Toyota...THEN try the Red Line again. And like I think even you have said, the first run of any oil is not representative, you need to look at the 2nd and third runs really. You are the pro...just some ideas I had...

 

[Terry]

Good recommendations Jason. This is engine is a test motor so all those precleaning protocals have been dealt with, crossing the T's and dotting the I's. This engine has a string of data a mile long for comparison. We are hoping that the lab messed up and will have that verified soon by the split sample taken 500 miles later and sent to a blinded lab.

 

[Terry]

These engines are difficult to "preclean" because of the oil retained in the lifter bucket area that gets cooked on shutdown or idle. So that may have excacerbated the the thickening. I'll post what I find as a service to the board.

 

[Terry]

Jason, I like these motors as they are very tight and build alot of HP smoothly. You have just got to keep a high quality oil in them. Cleaning the crankcase every 10,000 miles is not a bad idea either. One benefit of using our service is that I personally "read" every result that you see. That way you have a contact that will answer your questions and not leave you hanging.

 

[Bror Jace]

Terry, you say that the results with Red Line are less than ideal ... but what about other oils at similar intervals? Have you found anything that will last an equivalent interval or do you merely recommend people stay away from 'extended' intervals with these Toyota engines? --- Bror Jace

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Great. Will be interesting to see the results. Glad I don't have one of those motors

 

[Bror Jace]

I guess nothing else works better.