Consensus on Redline Oils?
- Thread starter Night Owl
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Patman
Staff member
One of the benefits of Redline is that it contains a lot of moly in it. At the same time, it might just contain too much moly. I am not sure why they put in 5-600ppm of moly when only so much will plate up anyways. Even if they cut their moly level in half it would still do it's job.
Redline has an excellent base stock, so in theory it should be able to handle longer drain intervals than the other synthetics. But for 5k oil changes you will do fine with SuperSyn. Redline's higher cost is another reason to go with SuperSyn if you are doing 5k changes.
Why limit yourself to 5k though? Do an oil analysis and you'll see you could go further with either of these oils.
I agree with Patman.
If I were running an oil besides M1 SS, I'd go ahead and try Schaeffer, since it apears to have the most balanced package.
Only if you burn the oil. I think Redline has pretty good NOACK numbers though. Redline really loads up their oils with EP adds. I don't know if this is really necessary for an automotive oil but it's a benefit for motorcycles. I think Redline makes an excellent motorcycle oil. One member posted outstanding analysis results on his motocycle.
Do the moly / Zinc levels in Supersyn seem to be high enough to provide good barrier protection as compared to the levels in Redline?
Would the high level of zinc in Redline cause higher levels of valve deposit?
If cost was not a factor, which oil would provide the best overall protection with 5K oil changes and some towing?
Patman
Staff member
quote:But think about it this way, how much of that 600ppm of moly actually plates up on the metal? Nowhere near all of it. So what happens with the rest of the moly? What effect does it have? I'm not saying Redline isn't good, believe me, I think it's top notch, I'm just very curious as to why it has so much moly. Shaeffer's has proven that with 150ppm of moly it can do a great job of low engine wear.
Originally posted by satterfi: If cost is not a factor, use Redline. I doubt Redline uses too much moly. They've been making oil for umteen years. Do you think they would add more moly if they thought it wasn't necessary or even detrimental?
FWIW, don't neglect the non-API-licensed status of Redline. This seems to be a problem for many folks (for me, anyway, at ~$8/qt. I don't see why they can't pay for the license like everybody else. Similar comments apply to another popular synthetic discussed on this board. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
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In any case, at 5k intervals, I believe it's tough to cost-justify Redline. And if your vehicle is under warranty the lack of API licensing may be a consideration as well.
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In any case, at 5k intervals, I believe it's tough to cost-justify Redline. And if your vehicle is under warranty the lack of API licensing may be a consideration as well.
Patman
Staff member
quote:That's one way to look at it, but remember, Redline does not advertise anywhere that they use moly. Only those of us "in the know" are aware of this info.
Originally posted by satterfi: Patman I guess for $8/qt some people expect over kill. If it only had 200ppm moly they might have to sell it for $6/qt
API Doughnut
Well, I am not sure about RedLine but I believe that Amsoil cannot become API certified due to the high amounts of phosphorus and zinc. So even if they tried they would not pass? Someone can confirm that. Not sure if RedLine is in the same boat.
I have noted that there are a very large number of oils on the shelves now that do not have the certification. The symbol may be there but read closely, it may say meets as opposed to certififed by. I do not believe the high mileage oils are either
Question becomes...is RedLine overkill (unless you're going to be doing extended drain intervals)? Patman, found local shop (Burnhamthorpe and Confedration) that has full Redline stock....but at $18/qt....something doesn't fit right with me and $150-200/oil changes....(I need 8+ qts./change)
Patman
Staff member
Dr.T, for us up here, Redline is way too expensive to use. It's not 3x better than Mobil 1, yet it costs 3x as much.
quote:Patman, You also have to take into account the type of moly being used by Redline and Schaeffer, which is top secret information I'm sure. With Redline's Moly of 600ppm, maybe 300ppm may only plate up, BUT if it had only 300ppm to start, would the whole 300ppm plate? I don't think it will. Regards, Oz P.S. Yes, unfortunately, Redline is quite rare up here in Canada and quite expensive.
Originally posted by Patman: [quote]But think about it this way, how much of that 600ppm of moly actually plates up on the metal? Nowhere near all of it. So what happens with the rest of the moly? What effect does it have? I'm not saying Redline isn't good, believe me, I think it's top notch, I'm just very curious as to why it has so much moly. Shaeffer's has proven that with 150ppm of moly it can do a great job of low engine wear.
quote:Yes Spector, I believe you are correct. AMSOIL's Full-Synth. lineup (ASL I believe) has more than 10% Zinc/Phosphor content which API SL does not allow. Regards, Oz
Originally posted by Spector: API Doughnut Well, I am not sure about RedLine but I believe that Amsoil cannot become API certified due to the high amounts of phosphorus and zinc. So even if they tried they would not pass? Someone can confirm that. Not sure if RedLine is in the same boat.
Redline is A$29 quart here and they have a rapidly expanding market. Oil/filter cost really is irrelevant in a $30/40/50,000 vehicle IMHO and obviously many agree. However if Schaeffers had a 5W40 S7000 and I could import it at a reasonable price I'd try that.
Red Line ain't exactly cheap here in the states (they are headquartered in California) ... but it stacks up pretty well against Mobil 1 especially as the new SuperSyn is approaching $5 per quart + tax. I can get Red Line delivered to my door for $8 per quart and my Honda takes merely 3.5 - 4 quarts. Cost of the oil is even less significant when you have a tiny sump. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
But, it's also that much more critical as each ounce of oil carries a larger burden and spends more time exposed to more heat. ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif)
As for Red Line's extra plentiful moly causing oxidation, I haven't seen evidence of that yet. Red Line's formula makes checking TBN difficult and I've seen samples here that looked new after 5,000 miles. I just don't see oxidation as an issue to be concerned about with this stuff.
As was pointed out in other threads about Red Line, I got pretty good wear numbers ... and that was with a substantial COOLANT LEAK.
I'm trying Schaeffer right now (Supreme 70000 blend - 10W30) but the high cost of shipping makes it a less than ideal choice for me. Maybe if I could go in with a bunch of guys on a several cases I could make the $250 minimum. ![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
--- Bror Jace
But, it's also that much more critical as each ounce of oil carries a larger burden and spends more time exposed to more heat.
As for Red Line's extra plentiful moly causing oxidation, I haven't seen evidence of that yet. Red Line's formula makes checking TBN difficult and I've seen samples here that looked new after 5,000 miles. I just don't see oxidation as an issue to be concerned about with this stuff.
As was pointed out in other threads about Red Line, I got pretty good wear numbers ... and that was with a substantial COOLANT LEAK.
I'm trying Schaeffer right now (Supreme 70000 blend - 10W30) but the high cost of shipping makes it a less than ideal choice for me. Maybe if I could go in with a bunch of guys on a several cases I could make the $250 minimum.
--- Bror Jace- Status