Confusion: Is German Castrol 0w30 Syntec a Full Synthetic??...
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GC is the real deal. Most believe a PAO and Ester blend I believe.
Hammer
If you have a real need to categorize it, it's best to think of it as group IX, not 9, but IX. The elves that make this stuff are a bit old fashioned, and prefer Roman numerals.
I think the elves decided this back when Vercingetorix was challenging Julius Caesar for the control of Gaul, but pscholte will correct me if I'm mistaken.
[ October 28, 2004, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
[ October 28, 2004, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Assuming that GC is in fact the same fluid as the SLX that Castrol distributs in Europe, then it is a Group IV/V. In Europe, oil refiners/makers have to call the G-IIIs "hydrocracked" (HC) and the IV or Vs get to be called synthetics. SLX is/was called a syn, not an HC, so I'd take from that that it is in fact a "true" synthetic. With a grain of salt, of course, since this is afterall, Castrol we're dealing with. . .quote:
Originally posted by Ugly3:
Nobody knows the answer. There have been several excellent UOAs for this oil and it has been raised to the level of "Elfhood" but no one knows.
EDIT for premature posting.
The GC I just bought smells and looks (green color) exactly like the Pentosynth 5W-40 oil I have. Pentosynth is a group IV/V full synthetic imported from Germany and is labeled as fully synthetic, in German of course. I may be naive but, smells like a group IV/V & looks like a group IV/V so hopefully it really is.
And what is so special about this German Castrol? Why would I want to dump Mobil Delvac 1 in favor of GC?
OK, so can anyone tell us what the "Yellow Label" American 0W30 is, that Castrol says is "identical" to GC
Go study its UOA results, which are pretty good, across the board. Look for UOAs in vehicles that are the same as, or similar to, your vehicle. Then you can answer your question for yourself.
The backs of their own bottles belie this claim. I assume that the "yellow label" stuff is the usual hydrocracked Group-III stuff. But that's really irrelevant. Part of what I like about the GC, apart from its great performance proven through multiple UOAs, is the compliance with the A3 and VW standards. GC has 'em and yellow label does not. Identical? In grade only, BS otherwise.quote:
Originally posted by Pick:
OK, so can anyone tell us what the "Yellow Label" American 0W30 is, that Castrol says is "identical" to GC
Ken, with all due respect, this isn't exactly correct. This issue (what can be called "synthetic") is not, to my knowledge, covered by any law, statute, regulation, or case in the United States. Mobil and Castrol duked it out in an arbitration, that they had agreed in advance would not be appealed by either side. Except to the extent that there's presently no proven way to stop someone from calling a G-III "synthetic", there's certainly no "right" to do so. To me, it remains a fraud, but alas, it's not one that congress or the courts are likely to bother with any time soon. They have "real" issues to address before they act to end the squabbling between a small group of oil obsessives.
We do know that UOAs show it to be one of the best oils available at any price. Good stuff.
I guess the question is, "what's your burden of proof" before you're convinced that it's one thing or another. If you require a direct statement from Castrol as to the formula, or perhaps the results of a gas chrom, then sure, we don't "know" right now what it is. On the other hand, since we don't have those, I'm willing to look at all of the info we've got and make what I feel is at least an informed inference that this is in fact a PAO, probably with an ester content as well. Why? 1) the oil appears to be a twin of SLX, which is not called an HC oil by euro rules (pscholte, didn't you have the scoop on the connection with SLX?),
2) the UOA performance is better than you see from the G-IIIs overall. I just spent about 30 minutes running various G-III searches in the UOA section. My conclusion is that while there are some fine results from G-IIIs, there are plenty of avg or poor ones, a spread we just aren't seeing with GC.
3) Check out this very interesting UOA (click here), in which member Alex D posted side-by-side UOAs from the same vehicle, one with GC, one with yellow label 0w-30 syntec, and another with Redline. Unless you add in the fact that there was a hard trailer tow on the GC, frankly, the GC did not do much better* than the yellow, but their formulae are clearly different, suggesting that GC is not just a clone of the G-III US-made product.
Bottom line -- I'm comfortable that GC is not a G-III product, but I'd still like to hear it from Castrol.
* personally, I'd rather have the 12 iron with the lower lead, but that's just me.
2) the UOA performance is better than you see from the G-IIIs overall. I just spent about 30 minutes running various G-III searches in the UOA section. My conclusion is that while there are some fine results from G-IIIs, there are plenty of avg or poor ones, a spread we just aren't seeing with GC.
3) Check out this very interesting UOA (click here), in which member Alex D posted side-by-side UOAs from the same vehicle, one with GC, one with yellow label 0w-30 syntec, and another with Redline. Unless you add in the fact that there was a hard trailer tow on the GC, frankly, the GC did not do much better* than the yellow, but their formulae are clearly different, suggesting that GC is not just a clone of the G-III US-made product.
Bottom line -- I'm comfortable that GC is not a G-III product, but I'd still like to hear it from Castrol.
* personally, I'd rather have the 12 iron with the lower lead, but that's just me.
Ah, semantics.
I call oils made from Group III basestock "full synthetic." Like it or no, they have the legal right to that moniker.
I call oils made from Group IV or V basestock "true synthetic."
Ken
I call oils made from Group III basestock "full synthetic." Like it or no, they have the legal right to that moniker.
I call oils made from Group IV or V basestock "true synthetic."
They don't really compare. German Castrol Syntec is an excellent PAO-based gasoline engine 0W-30. Mobil Delvac 1 is an excellent PAO-based diesel & gasoline engine 5W-40.
Ken
I was wondering where you'd gone. We've had a virtual blizzard of GC postings in the last week or so.
Seriously though, I've forgotten how GC and SLX were connected. I remember seeing something about it, but I can't find it now. Do you know what I'm talking about?
First of all it doesn't matter. Both Group III, IV and V oils are synthetic (sorry to burst your bubble).
However, from what I can surmise....the US 0-30 Syntec (and the rest of the Syntec lineup) is a watered down or thickened up version of the Belgian Syntec 5-40 depending on what grade is req'd. ie. it's the same formula. Hence, anything less than a 40 weight cannot be A3.
It then goes to follow that the GC 0-30 is the European version of SLX...and hence, it may in fact be a Group IV (as req'd for Euro synth's) and would be a completely different formula than the US non A3-rated 0-30.
However, from what I can surmise....the US 0-30 Syntec (and the rest of the Syntec lineup) is a watered down or thickened up version of the Belgian Syntec 5-40 depending on what grade is req'd. ie. it's the same formula. Hence, anything less than a 40 weight cannot be A3.
It then goes to follow that the GC 0-30 is the European version of SLX...and hence, it may in fact be a Group IV (as req'd for Euro synth's) and would be a completely different formula than the US non A3-rated 0-30.
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