Composite Analysis of GC

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A composite analysis of GC was performed by our chemists,this info was verbally given to me, and they have drawn the following conclusions: The make-up of this oil is predominately a Group III base oil component ~70%. It also has ~15% Group V component. This was a done using a composite sinusoidal analysis process. I am not a chemist, but a mechanical engineer, specializing in fluids technology, but based upon this info, it seems to be manufactured comparable to Mobil 7500, but at nearly 3 times the cost, although it appears to have a more "robust" add pack. The combination of the Grp V component and the robust add pack were obviously required to meet some of the more stringent specs. I am not taking any position on this, but felt it would be of value to some of the members on this board. This type of testing is commonly done between competitors. The chemists have also told me that one of the reasons that this German variety is availble is that it could be a marketing ploy, knowing full well that a lubricant cannot be labled a synthetic in Europe, if it contains a predominately Grp III base. It was obviously marketed for the North American market.., hence its English labeling.., for North American high performance vehicle owners, with the illusion they are getting a European quality lubricant. [ March 30, 2005, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: carpy ]
 
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Carpy...this is amazing news. You are a wealth of info. How does this 0W30 compare with the other "fake" synthetics in the Syntec line? Do you know if the other Syntecs contain any of the Group V ester? That Mobil 7500 sounds like a good product. It is on my list of oils to try. Thanks again for the post.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by carpy: A composite analysis of GC was performed by our chemists,this info was verbally given to me, and they have drawn the following conclusions: The make-up of this oil is predominately a Group III base oil component ~70%. It also has ~15% Group V component. This was a done using a composite sinusoidal analysis process.
Hm-m-m-m, I'll try to say this nicely. I suspect both your info and your motives in posting this. I wouldn't even "honor it" with a response but I don't want anyone not familiar with the real testing being done to be swayed by it. I'd like to know where you got this "info" because it certainly doesn't "square" with an analysis I trust being superintended by our resident expert. Please review Terry Dyson's post below.
quote:
BITOGer's thanks for your patience and understanding, I have also been disappointed in the delays. I was beginning to think that "unobtainium" was being used too. ZOil [GC] is primarily a PAO based lubricant. Nothing but Grp4 and higher components. We are currently attempting to break out and ID the complex and unique esters used in the formula. More later. Our testing to date has included EI and CI mass spec work, currently we have another lab performing additional testing, hopefully that can catalog the complex hydrocarbons, and others we see. NMR and or Desorption capability is needed but may not be available for the additional testing. The very exciting constituents we are encountering is that the esters used are unlike any you would find in Redline,Amsoil, or Mobil1 formulas. My hat is off to the formulator of Zoil that we are testing. No TCP or POE esters involved here. Elves indeed. I think that Doug Hillary's formula that left the Oz neck of the woods was developmental and that this formula was the answer.
I will get a blast out to all that contributed and will have a much more in depth interpretation in the "near" future for the folks who paid the freight on this testing. Stay tuned. [ March 31, 2005, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
[Eek!] PLEASEEEEEEEE say this aint so. Within a week I have gone to 3 stores to collect my current stash of 28 qts of The Green. 14 of them today on my lunch break. If The Green turns out to be a wolf in (green) sheeps clothing I will [Bang Head] for paying almost 80 bucks for those 14 qts...and the lady behind the counter said "wow, this is some expensive oil"...... [Thumbs Down!]
 

carpy

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"I'll try to say this nicely. I suspect both your info and your motives in posting this. I wouldn't even "honor it" with a response" I guess this is what I should expect from the crew on this board. This is the thanks I get when I try to post some valuable information. This is a repeat the Mobil Grp III info I posted before.
 
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Carpy, I don't suspect your motives, but I think there may be confusion on Mobil's part as to which oil is GC. Can you confirm that what they tested said "Made in Germany" on the back and was green in apearance? Did you give them the bottle? I bet the chemists are refering to regular syntec.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by pscholte:
quote:
Originally posted by carpy: A composite analysis of GC was performed by our chemists,this info was verbally given to me, and they have drawn the following conclusions: The make-up of this oil is predominately a Group III base oil component ~70%. It also has ~15% Group V component. This was a done using a composite sinusoidal analysis process.
Hm-m-m-m, I'll try to say this nicely. I suspect both your info and your motives in posting this. I wouldn't even "honor it" with a response but I don't want anyone not familiar with the real testing being done to be swayed by it. I'd like to know where you got this "info" because it certainly doesn't "square" with an analysis I trust being superintended by our resident expert. Please review Terry Dyson's post below.
quote:
BITOGer's thanks for your patience and understanding, I have also been disappointed in the delays. I was beginning to think that "unobtainium" was being used too. ZOil [GC] is primarily a PAO based lubricant. Nothing but Grp4 and higher components. We are currently attempting to break out and ID the complex and unique esters used in the formula. More later. Our testing to date has included EI and CI mass spec work, currently we have another lab performing additional testing, hopefully that can catalog the complex hydrocarbons, and others we see. NMR and or Desorption capability is needed but may not be available for the additional testing. The very exciting constituents we are encountering is that the esters used are unlike any you would find in Redline,Amsoil, or Mobil1 formulas. My hat is off to the formulator of Zoil that we are testing. No TCP or POE esters involved here. Elves indeed. I think that Doug Hillary's formula that left the Oz neck of the woods was developmental and that this formula was the answer.
I will get a blast out to all that contributed and will have a much more in depth interpretation in the "near" future for the folks who paid the freight on this testing. Stay tuned.

Terry Dyson has always been a straight shooter. I trust him.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by glxpassat: Carpy, I don't suspect your motives, but I think there may be confusion on Mobil's part as to which oil is GC. Can you confirm that what they tested said "Made in Germany" on the back and was green in apearance? Did you give them the bottle? I bet the chemists are refering to regular syntec.
I agree. Carpy we aren't doubting that you were told this or lying about it. anyway can you find out if it was the made in Germany, green stuff instead of the Castrol 0w-30 made in USA stuff?
 
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This is a real firecracker of a thread but I want to implore Carpy to stick around! Carpy, Please stick around. Get some details on the origen of the sample I don't doubt that you are being honest and trying to pass good scoop but at the same time I don't doubt the intrinsic ability of the devil to hide in the details. So Is this the green zoil or the golden zoil? Ther is definately a formulation difference.
 
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Although I trust Terry, carpy's info is entirely plausible too. 82.4% VHVI (144 VI, <8% NOACK) Grp III and 17.6% very low pour point Grp V Ester might do it. I'm hoping that carpy is generous enough to verify it is truly GC they tested. Thanks for sharing this info carpy. [Cheers!]
 
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The Mobil guys could have tested the rumored brown batches of '05 GC. Maybe Castrol has gone BACK to group 3 with the 0W-30. If that's the case, then both Terry's and Carpy's tests would be correct. [I dont know]
 
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Thanks for the info Carpy! Fellow forum members, we shouldn't shoot the messenger here!! I think that we all just want to confirm that the sample you used was GREEN and date coded on the bottle was 2002-2004. Keep up the good work. Your previous technical posts on Mobil products have been very informative. Thanks! [ March 31, 2005, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Ross ]
 

Patman

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Like others have suggested, the test must've been done on some of the M05 brown stuff, or perhaps on the older yellow label stuff. Terry's test is definitely on the real GC and he's already told us there is no group 3 in it. To me, no matter what the results would be, I'd still use it, since my UOAs with this oil have been awesome.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Patman: ...To me, no matter what the results would be, I'd still use it, since my UOAs with this oil have been awesome.
I second that. Both my 2000 Celica GT-S and my wife's 2002 Alero 2.2 put out half the wear metals with GC than with M1. It could be Elf spooge for all I care, if the results are good, you must acquit.
 

carpy

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I can confirm it was "made in Germany". I cannot confirm the date or date code. I purchased it 10 days ago, and gave the lab the unopened bottle, which is no longer available. As far as motives, I have stated said I preferred the SM/GF4 Warren supertech to any product,... no motive here.
 

JHZR2

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quote:
Originally posted by carpy: The make-up of this oil is predominately a Group III base oil component ~70%. It also has ~15% Group V component.
Interesting... very interesting. Carpy, you have provided such excellent information here, that I cannot understand why some must give such a hard time. Maybe you do have a motive, to help sell more XOM product, but that has never been my impression. You can only talk about what you know best, and I have no reason to doubt. That said, I think that the chemists sourced some 'yellow label' 0w-30 syntec. This stuff is far inferior, IMO, at the price point that it is offered at (though Ive seen many good 'fake synthetic' syntec UOAs). It should be a $3 oil with that composition, not $5. I have read in the past that typical NA market syntec oil is group III/V mixtures, and this would certainly prove that to be correct. I think that the German made Castrol is a different animal than you have tested. That said, the comments about customers being tricked into thinking they got a top-notvh euro lube are definitely true. The first time I saw it, I thought the same, and bought some before even seeing any real UOAs, etc. Fortunately, it seems that the (green, German made) syntec is the real deal. Thanks for the insight! It sure would be useful to gt this kind of info on other oils out there! Thanks, JMH
 
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I guess one thing that this piece of information proves is that there could be many sub-formulations of this GC. I also believe the statement about tricking the N.A> car owners that they are getting a European quality lubricant is true. After all, who was the original company to advertise that Grp III is a synthetic. As for me, I wont buy the stuff. It's not worth the money now that there is a doubt about what you are really getting. And inlight of this new info, there is a serious doubt.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by carpy: it seems to be manufactured comparable to Mobil 7500, but at nearly 3 times the cost, although it appears to have a more "robust" add pack. I am not taking any position on this, but...the chemists have also told me that one of the reasons that this German variety is availble is that it could be a marketing ploy, knowing full well that a lubricant cannot be labled a synthetic in Europe, if it contains a predominately Grp III base. It was obviously marketed for the North American market.., hence its English labeling.., for North American high performance vehicle owners, with the illusion they are getting a European quality lubricant... I guess this is what I should expect from the crew on this board.
Please everyone, read the not so subtle implications/accusations here...there should be no "shock" that it generated the response from me that it did...rest assured, there is nothing personal...just my (I believe) reasonable observations...look at the response it generated from newguy...I'd say it achieved the results intended...I stand by my original comments. [ March 31, 2005, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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Greenville, SC
quote:
Originally posted by carpy: .... I am not a chemist, but a mechanical engineer, specializing in fluids technology, but based upon this info, it seems to be manufactured comparable to Mobil 7500, but at nearly 3 times the cost, although it appears to have a more "robust" add pack. The combination of the Grp V component and the robust add pack were obviously required to meet some of the more stringent specs. .....
Carpy, Mobil Drive Clean 7500 pricing is $2.59 a qt. GC is normally $4.99 a qt. Seems to me that about 2 times the cost would have been a better cost comparison. Why the obvious attempt to slam GC? This makes me question your motives. If you have no hidden ajenda or motives, please accept my apology. Thanks for your post, Jack
 
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