What is your opinion of adding Marvels Mystery Oil to improve Cold Oil Flow? The first can I read in the 90s said to use 4 oz per quart to improve oil pump-ability in cold weather. Today, the website says to use 10-25% of sump capacity. I like Marvels oil but a lot of people argue it does nothing good.
Cold Weather Oil Flow & MMO
- Thread starter Dufus2
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I recall reading on the bottle (~3 years ago?) that a 5 quart sump could take 1/2 quart at most when the recommended oil is used so 10% sounds about right. An entire quart could be used, but the oil weight should be stepped up a grade. This is where I don't agree with the 25% assuming they want the recommended grade used. How would 4 quarts of 5w30 and 1 quart of MMO flow as opposed to just 5w20? Good question.
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
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People used to put kerosene in their engine oil for very-cold starts, common until about the 1970's when multi-viscosity oils finally got really good to use in the winter.
Its a little risky since visc when HOT drops. Consider your protective KV100 will drop by 10% for 10% MMO or kerosene. Its not quite that bad in practice. You could use a Widman calculator, but just consider worst case is, say, a drop from KV100=9 to KV100=7 for a 10% mix of MMO. Then, you've just dropped 1 whole grade down. I'd safely do maybe 10% in very cold weather. No more.
Its a little risky since visc when HOT drops. Consider your protective KV100 will drop by 10% for 10% MMO or kerosene. Its not quite that bad in practice. You could use a Widman calculator, but just consider worst case is, say, a drop from KV100=9 to KV100=7 for a 10% mix of MMO. Then, you've just dropped 1 whole grade down. I'd safely do maybe 10% in very cold weather. No more.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
The MSDS shows it has the same naphtha as most penetrating oil products. Its also my understanding it has sulfur as an antiwear additive. In my experience, MMO dissolves gum around the piston rings and loosens up carbon in the valve guides in addition to other areas with limited oil flow. I just added 3-oz per quart due to the very cold weather to prevent battery drain and help with sticktation before my next oil change.. Thanks guys for adding your opinion.
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
The MSDS shows it has the same naphtha as most penetrating oil products. Its also my understanding it has sulfur as an antiwear additive. In my experience, MMO dissolves gum around the piston rings and loosens up carbon in the valve guides in addition to other areas with limited oil flow. I just added 3-oz per quart due to the very cold weather to prevent battery drain and help with sticktation before my next oil change.. Thanks guys for adding your opinion.
MMO is an OK cleaning additive but a poor lubricant. It may help cold flow at the expense of proper lubrication.
Synthetic oil does better that conventional oil when it cold.
Use synthetic oil as listed in owners manual in temp compensated oil recommendation chart.
Synthetic oil does better that conventional oil when it cold.
Use synthetic oil as listed in owners manual in temp compensated oil recommendation chart.
I remember from A&P classes at Embry-Riddle back in the '80's, that old piston aircraft engines used to dilute the engine oil with fuel upon shutting down in extremely cold environments.
Rather than use MMO for its "thin" qualities, why not just run a 0w-20/30? It doesn't have much in the way of a detergent/additives package. Good cleaner though since approx half of it are solvents.
old thread on MMO
old thread on MMO
Welcome to the 70 using MMO. Totally useless product. But hey..it helps the economy so buy it.
Originally Posted By: Al
Welcome to the 70 using MMO. Totally useless product. But hey..it helps the economy so buy it.
exactly
Welcome to the 70 using MMO. Totally useless product. But hey..it helps the economy so buy it.
exactly
Sooooo.... the OP is worried about cold flow (I'm assuming for engine protection) yet is willing to pour in a "Mystery Oil" in hopes of achieving better protection??? Or just better flow at the expense of protection??
Why not just use a high quality oil for winter? It's been shown they flow just fine at insanely freezing temps, so what's the problem? Why add a snake oil? Is there data to show it helps? Why don't you put a cup of oil outside in the cold next to a cup of the same oil with your mystery snake oil added at the recommended amount and see what flows better in the AM? Wouldn't that tell you more info then a bunch of random idiotic comments of what people did in the 70s, etc? It's 2018 and NOTHING needs to be added to SN spec oil to help it flow at -40F. What utter nonsense.
Be sure to post the results of your backyard testing. I'd love to know the results.
Why not just use a high quality oil for winter? It's been shown they flow just fine at insanely freezing temps, so what's the problem? Why add a snake oil? Is there data to show it helps? Why don't you put a cup of oil outside in the cold next to a cup of the same oil with your mystery snake oil added at the recommended amount and see what flows better in the AM? Wouldn't that tell you more info then a bunch of random idiotic comments of what people did in the 70s, etc? It's 2018 and NOTHING needs to be added to SN spec oil to help it flow at -40F. What utter nonsense.
Be sure to post the results of your backyard testing. I'd love to know the results.
In virginia you dont need anything to improve flow. Modern oils are more than capable of handling low temps. No additives are needed today. I use 0w20 full synthetic oil and if its 0 Farenheit or lower just use a block heater. Much better than playing with oil chemistry. Ive had my car 7 years and always parked outside. I installed a block heater only recently and the car has always started without issue in temps down to -22 F. An old UOA I did showed very low wear numbers, thats all I need to see to keep using only a good full syn oil.
As others have stated, use a good quality synthetic for those cold starts.
Save the MMO for cleaning. I have some MMO left, bought a one gallon jug a few years back at WM.
Save the MMO for cleaning. I have some MMO left, bought a one gallon jug a few years back at WM.
Originally Posted By: Donald
MMO is an OK cleaning additive but a poor lubricant. It may help cold flow at the expense of proper lubrication.
Synthetic oil does better that conventional oil when it cold.
Use synthetic oil as listed in owners manual in temp compensated oil recommendation chart.
Not sure I agree ... I have been using MMO as rust preventative and slow-soak penetrating oil for about 50 years. Seems to lubricate very well. I have it trigger pump oil cans around the place. Use it on rusty hinges and the like, and they stay oily a long time - turn smooth, etc. Seems to lube well for a thin oil
It'll definitely thin out heavier motor oils, if you need to for winter. And is a better lube, by far, than Kerosene ... Just depends on what's in the sump right now ... Tossing a quart or two of MMO into a fresh'ish batch of 20W-50 or SAE 40 in a tractor will help it start and run better out in the fields in winter cold. Of course they are not running anywhere 200*F (+) like many modern engines ... I think it all depends on what your Op Temp is and if you can even get it there ...
MMO is an OK cleaning additive but a poor lubricant. It may help cold flow at the expense of proper lubrication.
Synthetic oil does better that conventional oil when it cold.
Use synthetic oil as listed in owners manual in temp compensated oil recommendation chart.
Not sure I agree ... I have been using MMO as rust preventative and slow-soak penetrating oil for about 50 years. Seems to lubricate very well. I have it trigger pump oil cans around the place. Use it on rusty hinges and the like, and they stay oily a long time - turn smooth, etc. Seems to lube well for a thin oil
It'll definitely thin out heavier motor oils, if you need to for winter. And is a better lube, by far, than Kerosene ... Just depends on what's in the sump right now ... Tossing a quart or two of MMO into a fresh'ish batch of 20W-50 or SAE 40 in a tractor will help it start and run better out in the fields in winter cold. Of course they are not running anywhere 200*F (+) like many modern engines ... I think it all depends on what your Op Temp is and if you can even get it there ...
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Use a synthetic 0W-20 oil. No sense throwing your $$ down a rathole.
Use synthetic oil. Even the lower end synthetic oils are priced around MMO and actually have better detergents. The mystery in MMO is what oil?
Originally Posted By: Dufus2
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
The MSDS shows it has the same naphtha as most penetrating oil products. Its also my understanding it has sulfur as an antiwear additive. In my experience, MMO dissolves gum around the piston rings and loosens up carbon in the valve guides in addition to other areas with limited oil flow. I just added 3-oz per quart due to the very cold weather to prevent battery drain and help with sticktation before my next oil change.. Thanks guys for adding your opinion.
Have you pulled engines apart after running some MMO to examine the rings and valve guides? How did you reach your conclusions?
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I've seen the stuff do some decent cleaning here with shorter OCI's so I'd say it does something.
The MSDS shows it has the same naphtha as most penetrating oil products. Its also my understanding it has sulfur as an antiwear additive. In my experience, MMO dissolves gum around the piston rings and loosens up carbon in the valve guides in addition to other areas with limited oil flow. I just added 3-oz per quart due to the very cold weather to prevent battery drain and help with sticktation before my next oil change.. Thanks guys for adding your opinion.
Have you pulled engines apart after running some MMO to examine the rings and valve guides? How did you reach your conclusions?
Originally Posted By: exShuttlemech
I remember from A&P classes at Embry-Riddle back in the '80's, that old piston aircraft engines used to dilute the engine oil with fuel upon shutting down in extremely cold environments.
They actually diluted the oil while running a bit before shutdown, so the "thinned" oil would be available at cold start up.
Later, once running - the gasoline boiled away and went out the breather tube....
I remember from A&P classes at Embry-Riddle back in the '80's, that old piston aircraft engines used to dilute the engine oil with fuel upon shutting down in extremely cold environments.
They actually diluted the oil while running a bit before shutdown, so the "thinned" oil would be available at cold start up.
Later, once running - the gasoline boiled away and went out the breather tube....
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: JC1
Save the MMO for cleaning. I have some MMO left, bought a one gallon jug a few years back at WM.
I never run it in the oil... but it does good things when mixed in the gas.
I have never had a need to add MMO to oil, however I do add to gas every 3-4 fill ups.
Originally Posted By: JC1
Save the MMO for cleaning. I have some MMO left, bought a one gallon jug a few years back at WM.
I never run it in the oil... but it does good things when mixed in the gas.
I have never had a need to add MMO to oil, however I do add to gas every 3-4 fill ups.
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