Cleans too good?

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54
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Connecticut
I need your thoughts on whether Mobil 1 cleans too good. I have started to use Lubro Moly MOS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment. While the M1 is keeping the engine internals clean is it also "cleaning" away the MOS2 from the surfaces of the bearings etc. where it is supposed to form a layer to reduce friction?
 

Mar57

Thread starter
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54
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Connecticut
No, guys, I'm not trying to outguess the oil engineers. I'm only asking if the M1 will treat the MOS2 as some type of dirt and try to remove it.
 
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6,388
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Washington St.
This link describes how the moly works with the zinc to produce a wear resistant, low friction tribofilm that is a few hundreds of a nanometer thick bonded to the crystal structure of the metal surface, and how it resists removal with the detergent-dispersant package in oils. http://arxiv.org/pdf/0704.0338 So, no, the Mobil 1 is not removing any good from your added moly. And, don't assume you're doing any good at all by adding more moly than the ExxonMobil chemists put into the oil.
 
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40,743
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Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Mobil 1 cleans less well than Pennzoil Ultra,so don't worry about being too clean.
Really? Proof will be coming soon?
According to SOPUS: http://pureplus.pennzoil.com/ (see chart half way down the page)
Quote:
Disclosure 3 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. 5 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Products. 11 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ keeps pistons up to 25% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 35% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 40% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®. Pennzoil Platinum® keeps pistons up to 8% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 17% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 20% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®.
However, I don't know if that means that PP and PUP are better at cleaning out desposits that are already there. It may just refer to the ability to prevent deposits from forming in the first place. Potentially two different things.
 
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14,832
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Illinois
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Mobil 1 cleans less well than Pennzoil Ultra,so don't worry about being too clean.
Really? Proof will be coming soon?
According to SOPUS: http://pureplus.pennzoil.com/ (half way down the page)
Quote:
Disclosure 3 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. 5 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Products. 11 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ keeps pistons up to 25% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 35% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 40% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®. Pennzoil Platinum® keeps pistons up to 8% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 17% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 20% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®.
However, I don't know if that means that PP and PUP are better at cleaning out desposits that are already there. It may just refer to the ability to prevent deposits from forming in the first place. Potentially two different things.
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
 
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40,743
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Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got? The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. In reality, that 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.
 
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14,832
Location
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got? The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. That 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.
Actually they(SOPUS) show the boss side of pistons. Most know the land side of pistons is where the varnish will likely show since that's where the piston is the hottest. XM has pics as well of pistons but don't compare there results with naming other companies products. Everyone always compares their product to M1. I for one have seen pistons from engines that had 180K using M1 at 8-12K OCIs, and they were very clean and had no visable sign of coking. The clean claim from SOPUS actually shows the real benefit of using a quality synthetic oil, but they disgrace thereself a bit by comparing to M1.
 
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4,379
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MS
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got? The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. That 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.
Actually they(SOPUS) show the boss side of pistons. Most know the land side of pistons is where the varnish will likely show since that's where the piston is the hottest. XM has pics as well of pistons but don't compare there results with naming other companies products. Everyone always compares their product to M1. I for one have seen pistons from engines that had 180K using M1 at 8-12K OCIs, and they were very clean and had no visable sign of coking. The clean claim from SOPUS actually shows the real benefit of using a quality synthetic oil, but they disgrace thereself a bit by comparing to M1.
If there was an issue with SOPUS' claims regarding Seq IIIG piston deposits, XOM, Ashland or BP (Pennzoil didn't single out M1) would have petitioned SOPUS to stop running the ad by now. Silence from SOPUS' competitors is basically confirmation of the validity of SOPUS' claims.
 
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35,697
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NY
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
If there was an issue with SOPUS' claims regarding Seq IIIG piston deposits, XOM, Ashland or BP (Pennzoil didn't single out M1) would have petitioned SOPUS to stop running the ad by now. Silence from SOPUS' competitors is basically confirmation of the validity of SOPUS' claims.
Good point. Shutting up might be the best defense they have, and that's coming from an XOM user.
 
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1,462
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East Mountains, NM
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
Well, they've got ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test results to support their claims, for whatever it's worth. What have you got? The only thing I'd say is that you need to put some things in perspective. In reality, that 25% difference may be so small that it's not relevant during the average life of an engine.
I have got, whoever pays for the test tends to get the result that they requested. Amsoil is very well known for this. Penz just isn't as extravagant in their claims.
 
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40,743
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Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
I have got, whoever pays for the test tends to get the result that they requested.
Whoever pays for the test? ASTM Sequence IIIG is an industry standard test that every oil manufacturer has to run/pay for in order to claim API compliance. So I'm pretty sure XOM (and all others) have also "paid for" this test as well. Of course SOPUS is nitpicking. They've found one particular test that their oil excels on, and have focused all their marketing efforts on it in order to differentiate themselves from the competition. But the test still has to be valid, and it probably is, or else all the other companies would protest and force SOPUS to back off their claim. But again, it's just one test. It does not automatically mean PP/PUP is the best oil.
 
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13,616
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Frisco, TX
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Of course SOPUS is nitpicking. They've found one particular test that their oil excels on, and have focused all their marketing efforts on it in order to differentiate themselves from the competition. But the test still has to be valid, and it probably is, or else all the other companies would protest and force SOPUS to back off their claim. But again, it's just one test. It does not automatically mean PP/PUP is the best oil.
Agree, and it's the same reason you see commercials like this: More rear legroom than the Honda Accord! More standard horsepower than Toyota Camry! Lower base price than Volkswagen Passat! Advertising will always pick-and-choose what "foot" they put forward. For the above advertisement, they would of course conveniently NOT say: One less crash test star than Ford Fusion! 2mpg highway less than Chevy Malibu! Only car in its class without standard leather seating!
 
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9,783
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Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Mobil 1 cleans less well than Pennzoil Ultra,so don't worry about being too clean.
Really? Proof will be coming soon?
According to SOPUS: http://pureplus.pennzoil.com/ (half way down the page)
Quote:
Disclosure 3 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. 5 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro Products. 11 Based on pistons from standard V6 engine in ASTM Sequence IIIG piston deposit test using SAE 5W-30. Does not apply to Pennzoil Platinum® Euro and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ 0W-40. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ keeps pistons up to 25% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 35% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 40% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®. Pennzoil Platinum® keeps pistons up to 8% cleaner than Mobil 1; up to 17% cleaner than Valvoline® SynPower®; and up to 20% cleaner than Castrol® EDGE® with SYNTEC®.
However, I don't know if that means that PP and PUP are better at cleaning out desposits that are already there. It may just refer to the ability to prevent deposits from forming in the first place. Potentially two different things.
We are all aware of what SOPUS says.
Right. And you post Mobil links and info as though no one here has read or seen them. Op. Mos2 is different than the organic moly found in all other oils. It's a solid lubricant that when under heat and pressure is forced into the microscopic irregularities of metal surfaces and reduces metal on metal as it layers. Getting back to tigs comment what oil companies do say add additives? The answer is none. I'm not picking on you buddy I'm just stating an observation. I can say from experience using mos2 for years and years that I've never seen any accumulation or ring coking whatsoever on the 2 engines I've torn apart (for fun) that used it. The 4.6 2v in my mustang had it in the sump for many years and over 100000kms and upon teardown the engine inside was spotless. And the cams even to this day haven't rusted in my garage shelf and are very slick to the touch,even dare I say hard to keep a hold of.
 
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2,053
Location
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted By: Donald
Use a top shelf oil (like Mobil 1) and leave the additives for non BITOG members.
From what I have seen on Bitog is that the general consensus on LM Mos2 is more positive than negative. Unless that has changed some where, it seems like one of the very few additives that may be benifical. I've been using it for awhile along with some other people I know and have been happy. I know personal observations are not scientific, but I swear that after adding a can to my engine shortly after changing the oil that the engine does seem to run a bit smoother and with leaa noise. Some may disagree but until there is some proof that this stuff is garbage then I will most likely keep using it. We all know that moly is a good thing as seen by more companies adding it to their blends. Some more than others but I'd you are using an oil with a low count I don't see a reason not to use some. For piece of mind if nothing else.
 
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