Cleaning properties of fully synthetic two-stroke

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You use fully synthetic two-stroke oil anyways, right? Low deposit formation, low smoke etc. But one thing: When you read about two-stroke oil at various manufacturers, for semi-synthetic it says "low deposit formation" while for fully synthetic it even says "increased cleansing of the engine and exhaust system". No doubt that fully synthetics will keep a new engine sparklin'. But are the oils and additives really that good today that they can actually clean the combustion chamber and exhaust from old deposits left behind by dino oils?
 
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Mercury marine had a two stroke oil out called "Rejuvenate", I think. I bought a pint of it, it was expensive, probably about the same as Amsoil. I didn't like it, that it was gold and you could not detect mixed gas. It is the only two stroke oil, I have every used that made a noticeable difference in performance. I went to buy more and I would still be using it, but they quit making it. That was really good two stroke oil. I wish another manufacture would come out with a oil like that.
 
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Mercury marine had a two stroke oil out called "Rejuvenate", I think. I bought a pint of it, it was expensive, probably about the same as Amsoil. I didn't like it, that it was gold and you could not detect mixed gas. It is the only two stroke oil, I have every used that made a noticeable difference in performance. I went to buy more and I would still be using it, but they quit making it. That was really good two stroke oil. I wish another manufacture would come out with a oil like that.
try torco gp7
 
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That must be something like Evinrude's new X-Carbon oil ? Where did you see the Rejuvenate wasn't being made any more ? It's for sale all over the place online if you want to stock up. These oils are TC-W3 rated, being this is the Motorcycle forum you know how TC-w3 goes....
 
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I use a German synthetic oil-Optimol with my chainsaw and backpack blower. I mix it at 75-1. This on mochines I've had for 30-35 years that started out on more 'generic 2 stroke oils. It did clean them up and from the less oil used as opposed to the Jonsrud saw recommended 32-1 gave a noticable boost in power. In addition I've used Amzoil 'Interceptor', and it's fine except also golden colored and I also wanted the blue dye 'confirm' the correct fuel.
 

tommygunn

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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Mercury marine had a two stroke oil out called "Rejuvenate", I think. I bought a pint of it, it was expensive, probably about the same as Amsoil. I didn't like it, that it was gold and you could not detect mixed gas. It is the only two stroke oil, I have every used that made a noticeable difference in performance. I went to buy more and I would still be using it, but they quit making it. That was really good two stroke oil. I wish another manufacture would come out with a oil like that.
You didn't like it yet you bought more of it? This answers my question theoratically, though. However, I think that a cheap USB stethoscope to verify the claims would still be necessary.
 
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I don't use Amsoil anymore for my own reasons. Non of which are because it is a poor product however. Amsoil makes great oil IMO. I used to use a different oil for everything. I used Amsoil interceptor in the dirtbike, Pennzoil full-synthetic in the boat, Arctic blue in the snowmobile, and Amsoil saber pro in just about everything else. Now I have gone entirely to the Pennzoil full-synthetic for all my 2 strokes. I notice almost no difference in the dirt bike, other than I like the smell better, and I am certain when gas is mixed. Interceptor is gold, and does not color the gas. tommygunn, I think that is what Panzerman was referring to with the quicksilver rejuvenate, which you can still buy BTW. I mark mixed cans with duct tape, but in my family, it has happened before where someone takes the can and fills it with straight gas. That and I just like the color blue. I will see how it affects the power valve when I check it out over the winter. From the data sheets, the Pennzoil should be close to as clean as interceptor. I have yet to try it in the snowmobile, but I'm sure it will be fine. Other than the boat, I run 40:1 in everything. That makes it really easy for me, as all my gas is the same. I don't even have a can of straight gas, my car is the only 4 stroke that I use. I have been running it at 50:1 in the boat for as long as I have had it. Zero carbon issues, great compression, doesn't smoke all that much, smells great. Its a winner in my book. I will say that Amsoil saber pro was even more smokeless, and I'm guessing the marine version is the same. Its kind of neat, but I don't mind smoke. IMO, a smokey start means the oil was left in the motor to protect against rust and other problems. Once warm, a properly jetted engine doesn't smoke bad with really any oil. I have no problem with really any 2 stroke oil. The list of bad oils is short. I get the full-synthetic Pennzoil for $25 a gallon. If it was really a concern, You can get the walmart brand TCW-3 for like $12 a gallon. My dad uses it, and it works just fine. I'm not a fan of the semi-synthetics. The standard oils work fine, and are much cheaper. If you want a better oil, I would go full-synthetic. One oil I will mention to avoid is Citgo 2 stroke oil. My dad got it on sale. I opened it up, and I am convinced it is colored cat pee. It smells SO bad. He ran it in our 2 stroke generator and it even smells bad when its burning. He went back to his walmart brand.
 
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Contrary to popular opinion, more oil makes more power (properly jetted) and more oil produces less carbon. As far as synthetics producing fewer deposits, that is sometimes true. Especially when it comes to "power valve" deposits. However, in test after test, the very best oil for deposits was conventional Pennzoil 2 cycle oil. http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm However, I'm not sure the classic Pennzoil 2 cycle oil is still available. There were some reports that the formulation still remains available, but I'm not sure where. Just remember, wear rates and carbon deposits are not equal parts of the same situation. That Pennzoil 2 cycle oil is wonderful in low stress engines, but falls quite short in 55HP Kart engines, where Motul 800 does far better.
 
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
Contrary to popular opinion, more oil makes more power (properly jetted) and more oil produces less carbon. As far as synthetics producing fewer deposits, that is sometimes true. Especially when it comes to "power valve" deposits. However, in test after test, the very best oil for deposits was conventional Pennzoil 2 cycle oil. http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm However, I'm not sure the classic Pennzoil 2 cycle oil is still available. There were some reports that the formulation still remains available, but I'm not sure where. Just remember, wear rates and carbon deposits are not equal parts of the same situation. That Pennzoil 2 cycle oil is wonderful in low stress engines, but falls quite short in 55HP Kart engines, where Motul 800 does far better.
Cujet, you have pretty much summed up my #1 issue with Amsoil. In order to stay competitive they feel they need to push the thin oil ratios for their oils. Then comes the fact that Amsoil oils are not certified, at least not the 2 stroke ones. But don't ask the many fanatics who sell the stuff, because they will tell you about the "extensive testing." I have yet to see an article of amsoil's testing of their oil. I should just stop before I get a headache. I'm not sure what to call amsoil. They are not really scamming people, its not a pyramid scheme. They are snake oil salesman. I have never seen a test where more oil produced less carbon, but I have never seen a study where it produced more either. I have seen 3 dyno tests that tested oil ratios. All three found somewhere around 15:1-20:1 to produce maximum horsepower in 2 stroke engines. j A synthetic oil is not man made, it is synthetically modified oil. It is more or less highly refined versions of "dino oil." The base oils are of better quality, and there are generally more additives. I don't think pennzoil makes the same oil they did years ago. I think sometime around the early 2000's they were bought out, and I have heard they changed formulas. I have not used the older stuff. From what I hear, the old kind was green, and this new stuff is blue. You can still buy the air-cooled version, but it has not been listed on their website any time I looked. Instead it looks like they changed the name to multi-purpose. I'm sure its good oil, I have never tried it. Motul makes some very good oil, and I used to run their 700. If I was in need of the very best protection, I would look to castor oils. From what I have seen Castrol A747 will handle the worst punishment. While castor oils provide incredible protection, I don't like their disadvantages. The main one being that it will separate from the gas rather quickly. I'll stick with my fully synthetic oil. At my bikes last rebuild after god knows how many hours of riding, there was still cross hatching on the cylinder, no marks on the piston, and it still ran good. Everything was sparkling clean other than a thin strip of black across the top of the piston.
 
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Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Mercury marine had a two stroke oil out called "Rejuvenate", I think. I bought a pint of it, it was expensive, probably about the same as Amsoil. I didn't like it, that it was gold and you could not detect mixed gas. It is the only two stroke oil, I have every used that made a noticeable difference in performance. I went to buy more and I would still be using it, but they quit making it. That was really good two stroke oil. I wish another manufacture would come out with a oil like that.
You didn't like it yet you bought more of it? This answers my question theoratically, though. However, I think that a cheap USB stethoscope to verify the claims would still be necessary.
I liked the performance of the oil. I did not like the clear gold color. I like dyed two stroke oil.
 
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When it comes to 2 stroke oil semi or full syn, Ive seen no results that full syn is a lot cleaner, once into the exhaust pipe. Honda has a Full syn racing 2 stroke (extremely strong film strength), but a lot of extra gum and carbon in the exhaust. My money goes to Yamalube R . It was first well noted back in the 70's how clean it ran in the combustion chamber. Its been reformulated once or twice since then, but overall its hard to beat. But I would say Bull on any 2 strok oil clean existing carbon in the pipe. The only thing I know that will do that is leaded race fuel.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
You use fully synthetic two-stroke oil anyways, right? Low deposit formation, low smoke etc. But one thing: When you read about two-stroke oil at various manufacturers, for semi-synthetic it says "low deposit formation" while for fully synthetic it even says "increased cleansing of the engine and exhaust system". No doubt that fully synthetics will keep a new engine sparklin'. But are the oils and additives really that good today that they can actually clean the combustion chamber and exhaust from old deposits left behind by dino oils?
 
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You are right in that just being a synthetic oil doesn't mean it is automatically cleaner. It does have a cleaner base stock, but after that its all up to the additives. Some go for more protection like Motul, some are all about low smoke, low build up like Amsoil. And there are tons in the middle like Pennzoil and Klotz. They can clean off existing carbon, but I wonder to what extent. I've never had an excessive build up, so I have never really worried about it. Anything can take it off. Seafoam is often the go to for decarbonizing engines, but even water will do it if you put it in a warm, running engine.
 
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Id rather leave the carbon, than use water(that's just horrific to me). leaded race fuel produces little snowflake oxides, they eat carbon like crazy. Most racing fuel is around 4 to 5 grams per gal of lead, for cleaning purposes full strength isn't needed. You can easily get away maintaining a clean motor with a cup or two per 5 gals, from combustion to the tail pipe.
 
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ester oils a group V real synthetic cleans the best of any other type of oil + its most expensive as well
 
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