Cigto 5W-20 Supergard, '02 Accord V6 3.0L, 3K miles

[Jon]

The oil (Citgo Supergard 5W-20) was in use for just shy of 3000 miles. Vehicle has nearly 40K miles on it, 2002 Honda Accord V6. Both FP60 and JB Fuel Additive were used, approx. 75% of the tanks.

Analysis, etc... through Terry Dyson.

**NOTE** This was the PREMIUM kit from Mr. Dyson.

code:

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Iron 7

Copper 33

Tin 4

Lead 0

Chromium 1

Nickel 0

Aluminum 3

Titanium 0

Silver 0

Calcium 1473

Magnesium 8

Zinc 838

Phosphorus 718

Barium 7

Molybdenum 624

Antimony 0

Silicon 4

Sodium 3

Boron 50

Potassium 0

Vanadium 0



Visc. @ 40C 42

Visc. @ 100C 7

TAN 1.85

Flashpoint 320

Oxidation 16

Nitration 9

TBN 3.6

Soot 0

Sulfate Byproducts 19

fuel 1.5%

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[sxg6]

Wear looks fine, even the copper is normal for a v6 accord. I'd just be worried about the all the fuel

 

[Buick92]

That's a ton of Moly for a $2 or less oil.

 

[Jon]

For this interval, the weather (like everywhere else) was REALLY HOT. On top of that, the car did not get babied and a more-than-usual amount of stop-and-go traffic. I also performed more short trips than usual. My driving style is fairly conservative but with the /occasional/ run-to-redline (usually just for on-ramps and such). One of the injectors was replaced around 10K miles ago, the plugs at the same time with OEM platinum NGK's, which looked great. The injector was replaced because one plug kept getting dark - it wouldn't foul but it was clearly getting more fuel - a previous UOA also showed over 4% fuel dilution. The travel pattern is probably 40/60 city/highway in terms of distance, but more like 65/35 in terms of time.

What does 7cst mean in light of it being a 5W-20?
My temps are very stable, comes up to temperature very quickly and barely moves unless it's HOT, I'm using the A/C, and not moving, in which case the needle moves up just a wee bit.

The oil has these ratings on the back:
API SM ; SL ; GF-4 ; GF-3.
Energy Conserving

NOTE: My apologies! I was not using a Justice Brothers product, I was using the Lucas Fuel Treatment. I would estimate that I ran out of FP60 around 1/5 of the way through the mileage, and ran the Lucas stuff every tank for all but the last tank. Assumign 8 tanks, I ran the Lucas stuff for 6 tanks, and FP60 for the first tank. Nothing in the last tank.

I have some MMO, think that might be useful to clean the injectors?

 

[Ray H]

That moly count defies all reason. Were you using a moly supplement? I can't fathom any blender intentionaly dumping that much moly in a standard commercial PCMO - and then selling it for a song no less.

 

[Jon]

I was using no supplements.

 

[Drew99GT]

7 Cst means it thinned quite a bit. I don't know the starting viscosity of this oil, but most 5w-20s are around 8 to 9 Cst at 100 degrees celsius. Copper is not out of line with this particular motor and the other metals are fairly low, so the thinning didn't harm your engine. Tin and aluminum are perhaps a hair on the high side.

 

[sxg6]

Citgo PDS
http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/355111.pdf

For those not familiar with Adobe reader, you might wanna click the button to the right of zoom in, near the zoom % sign. That'll rotate the page, unless you like to read with your head tilted to the left

 

[Jon]

I'll note that I just downloaded the specs - the Citgo 5W-20 *starts* at 8.2 cSt at 100C. (46 @ 40C).

 

[Market525]

So what was Terry's take on the fuel? Seems pretty high.

 

[Hirev]

Holy cow, I'll take some oil with that moly. Citgo was using a fair amount of moly in their older formulas... looks like they added more.

Fuel is high so the flash point is real low. Is this car mostly city driven? If not the injectors might be getting dirty? Some Chevron Techiron concentrate plus might not be a bad idea.

Is this their GF-4 SM oil?

 

[unDummy]

What is JB fuel additive?

I would think that JB or FP60 would keep the injectors clean, but maybe skip it for a tank and use a bottle of Regane, Techron, or SI-1, for a quick clean up.

I would think that at 40k the plugs/injector/o2's are still good. Fuel dilution caused by short trips(?) or possibly thermostat not fully closing, or opening too early. Replace it with new OEM thermostat if you haven't already. And, check, clean, or replace the PCV system?

Oil is only 7cst and a little thin.

What is your driving style?

 

[The Critic]

Its interesting that most of the recent Dyson Premium Kit analysis reports have shown high fuel readings. I wonder if this new lab has more accurate equipment with regards to detecting fuel dilution.

 

[427Z06]

I wonder if some of the Molybdenum didn't come from the piston rings/piston coating on the cylinder with the bad fuel injector.

 

[Terry]

Mike, YES, fuel dilution is an ongoing issue with many newer cars.

This moly level is correct as an add.

Recent Havoline 5w20 VOA are showing this level of Moly too. This Citgo formula is very close in composition to Chevron/Havoline levels of adds.

427Z06, excellent observation and a serious problem to consider. In this case I do not see that being an issue. Remember my comments to you a few years back about Honda fuel maps ? This is a prime example.

This unit has had chronic fuel dilute issues from new. Like many Honda/Acura units this year and following.

Our new Premium Service, tests for fuel dilute using FTIR AND I compute fuel dilution manually, every test.

Existing labs testing I interpret are also showing similar trends in increasing fuel dilution levels.

I don't know if the cause is the engines, oils, or newly formulated fuels. While we figure that out I am doing my best to protect my customers engines in spite of fuel in the oil!

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
Remember my comments to you a few years back about Honda fuel maps ? This is a prime example.

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Yes, Terry-samma. Combined with the Intake Air Bypass Control System which sends air to the fuel injectors, it's one of the strategies they use to get the cat to light off sooner. Unfortunately it looks like it may cause fuel dilution issues when not working just right. Probably have to be a top-notch Honda tech to troubleshoot this one.

 

[friendly_jacek]

2 words:
Holy Moly!

BTW, I remember reading in one of the FM papers that Mo works best with ZDDP in equimolar concentration.