Chrysler 2.7L V6 - 1 year of UOA

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For your 'enjoyment'. Please see the NOTES at the bottom.
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NOTES :
1) This started as an experiment for evaluating different oils in this engine and stretching the OCI. It started with QS Advanced Synthetic that ran from Dec 22/05 to Mar 1/06. That is the oldest analysis and is furthest right. I was new to BITOG and up to that point I was afraid to run OCI much longer than 3K mi (5000 km) based on the checkered history of the 2.7 L V6.

2) After the second UOA in May/06, I started a series of 3 consecutive ARX clean/rinse cycles. Dino was used throughout and no UOA were done from May to Oct/06 until the very last ARX Rinse (Rinse #3) with yellow jug Pennzoil 5W-30. Pretty good UOA for the yellow bottle !

3) LC was used consistently from Sept/06 onward but was not used in the most recent oil change (Amsoil 0W-30). LC flushes ( 10 - 20% LC) were also done at the end of each oil change starting with the Oct 1/06 oil change, but the LC flush is not included in any of the samples for analysis. Oil was drained/sampled prior to the LC flush.

4) I realize that the OCI are short compared to what is being touted by most people here. But for consistency of comparison I decided to keep the OCI all roughly the same since I started with a 6000 KM OCI. You can also see me gradually stretching them out. People will scream about the short run on the Amsoil 0W-30 but again the purpose was for consistency of comparison. I got the Amsoil cheap enough that the short run doesn't bother me (much).

5) All analysis were done by WearCheck in Mississauga except for the most recent one (Amsoil 0W-30, March 4/07) which was done by FluidLife. I learned that the oxidation/nitration/sulfation numbers that Wearcheck provide are relative values based on the last 100,000 samples they've analyzed. In other words they tell me where I rank compared to everyone else in their database (diesels, dump trucks, nat gas engines, etc), but they don't provide the actual quantitative numbers for my sample. Mostly useless I believe. On the other hand, FluidLife provides the actual Absorbance reading so I thought I'd give them a try.
Interesting that FluidLife checked their database while I was dropping off the sample, found that they didn't have any baseline data for Amsoil 0W-30 and said they would need that for the oxidation/nitration/sulfation tests. I happened to have a new full quart bottle in the trunk so we cracked it open and they took 100 mls. When I got my analysis back, they had done a full VOA on the Amsoil, which they included with my sample results. I like these guys !

Considering that the Chrysler 2.7L V6 is hard on oil, anyone with a normal engine should be able to use the above results to extrapolate a longer and more reasonable OCI with any of the oils listed.

That's all folks.
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The cheaper synthetics really got worn out fast in this engine, considering how quickly you racked up the kms. It did pretty well on the oils that sheared down to 9.2, so maybe the Amsoil 0w-20 will work, and you can save a bit of gas.
 
Excellent UOA collection.

What air filter? Si seems to be high but consistent.

That glycol(K/Na) might be worth investigating. I'd probably replace the thermostat, flush the antifreeze, and use any of the radiator stop-leak products.

Wheres the sludge?

Lots of driving. Amsoil is the choice if you want to double your oil change interval.

No soot or insolubles?
 
Thanks for posting this. I believe this is the first UOA I've seen with a Motomaster Synth run.

It seemed to do as well as the next synth oil, as far as wear metals, but the tbn ended up a little skinny compared to the others. This was probably used through the winter months based upon the date of your spring sample. Fe and Manganese is higher showing perhaps some fuel dilution from winter driving.

In any case, seems ok for a 6500km interval, which appears to be your preferred OCI.
 
I agree with unDummy that the Amsoil 0w-30 would be your best choice, based on the information provided, to get at least 10,000 miles out of the oil. But you do need to keep a check on the sodium and potassium numbers, those appear to be too high, especially since water is present.

I really wish FluidLife gave exact oxidation and nitration numbers so we could compare Amsoil to the others.
 
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Excellent UOA collection.

What air filter? Si seems to be high but consistent.




Thanks. Airfilter was Fram and/or Wix. Standard paper element. Didn't seem to matter what time of year it was or whether the filter was new or old, the Si was always there.

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That glycol(K/Na) might be worth investigating. I'd probably replace the thermostat, flush the antifreeze, and use any of the radiator stop-leak products.




With these engines it's either the internal water pump (shaft seal) or the head gasket. There are two shaft seals separated by a chamber that is vented to the outside world through a weep hole. So far the weep hole is dry.

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Wheres the sludge?




Other than some high temp deposits, there probably isn't any "sludge" in this particular engine. We'll know for sure whe I take it apart in a few months to replace the timing chains, tensioners and water pump.

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Lots of driving. Amsoil is the choice if you want to double your oil change interval.

No soot or insolubles?




Yea it looks like Amsoil is the clear winner. Soot or Insolubles was never part of the package with WearCheck. I actually thought it was with FluidLife - I'll have to ask them.
 
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I agree with unDummy that the Amsoil 0w-30 would be your best choice, based on the information provided, to get at least 10,000 miles out of the oil. But you do need to keep a check on the sodium and potassium numbers, those appear to be too high, especially since water is present.




Yea I think I'll be going back to Amsoil for the next change. I've got a charge of Castrol Syntec in there right now. I'll get it analyzed for 'fun' when it's time comes (and to check again on the water/glycol situation), then go to Amsoil

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I really wish FluidLife gave exact oxidation and nitration numbers so we could compare Amsoil to the others.




FluidLife DOES provide real numbers. In fact they're the only real numbers for nitration/oxidation out of any of the analysis I have. The Wearcheck numbers (the oldest 6 analysis) are all useless : they're a percentile ranking based on the last 100,000 analysis in their database.
 
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Thanks for posting this. I believe this is the first UOA I've seen with a Motomaster Synth run.

It seemed to do as well as the next synth oil, as far as wear metals, but the tbn ended up a little skinny compared to the others. This was probably used through the winter months based upon the date of your spring sample. Fe and Manganese is higher showing perhaps some fuel dilution from winter driving.

In any case, seems ok for a 6500km interval, which appears to be your preferred OCI.




Well, 6500 to 7000 km (4000 to 4300 mi)was the range I chose to stick with for the purpose of evaluating oils in this engine. As I got analysis back and saw the TBNs were close to the lower limit and the viscosity showed that the oil was pretty chewed up (at least with the 5W-30s), I was starting to think that maybe 7500 - 8000 km ( 4600 to 5000 mi) would be the absolute limit for those oils in this engine (probably true).

But more important for me was trying to get a handle on the high temp deposit formation aspect in this engine and that's what I was hoping to use the oxidation and nitration numbers for. The numbers in my analysis didn't look like any of the numbers reported from other labs. When I finally had a chat with an analyst at WearCheck a few weeks ago and he explained what it was they were actually reporting, I said, "so these numbers tell me nothing about the actual quality of my oil", and he said, "I'm afraid not. They just tell you how you stack up against everyone else".

Anyhow, the MotoMaster stuff did OK but it appears to be a bit weaker in the TBN dept than similar oils.
 
VA3 I am sure am glad I took up your offer on the amsoil on clearance in st.catherines. I was there the same day and bought 24 litres of it. I am going to try it next in my civic.
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VA3 I am sure am glad I took up your offer on the amsoil on clearance in st.catherines. I was there the same day and bought 24 litres of it. I am going to try it next in my civic.
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Ahhh...I was wondering if you'd see this thread. Jeez, on a Honda I bet you could run 15-20K km (or more) on the Amsoil and get numbers like I did with just 7500km on my Intrepid.

I don't know if we'll ever see another deal on Amsoil like we did in St.Catharines.

I also posted a VOA for this oil in VOA section. FluidLife did it as a courtesy for me.

Phil
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Maybe you should try a run of the XD3 and see what kind of numbers you would get. This motor is really hard on the oil.




Ya know, I've got a case of the stuff in the garage and I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it. I put it aside after getting a professional opinion that XD-3 *might* not be a good choice for this engine due to the high levels of soot dispersants (or detergents or whatever)in XD-3. The concern was over the detergents actually contributing to deposits in the engine. XD-3 is pretty thick stuff too. But I can't imagine that one run would hurt, followed by some testing. I'll put it on the schedule.

And yes, I'm well aware of what this motor can do to oil.

Phil
 
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Oops, I entirely misread about FluidLife and WearCheck's oxiation/nitration numbers. Thanks for correcting me.




No problem Sir. My issue now is making proper use of these numbers. If you have any advice or can point me to some numbers from other 2.7's, I'd appreciate it.

It was FulidLife that "flagged" the nitration number in the analysis (highlighted in yellow).
 
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It was FulidLife that "flagged" the nitration number in the analysis (highlighted in yellow).



I noticed that about the nitration level, kind of strange with the oxidation level so low. Are you aware if all emission system components are working correctly? Use of any fuel additives?

I do not know much on the 2.7 engines, but do another analysis with them next time you use Amsoil and see how the nitration level compares.
 
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I noticed that about the nitration level, kind of strange with the oxidation level so low. Are you aware if all emission system components are working correctly? Use of any fuel additives?




It went through emissions testing just 4 months ago and passed with flying colors. Really low numbers at the tail pipe. HOWEVER, I have been wrestling with a pinging problem for several months. Pinging means lean mixture and lean burning engines are known for nitration issues (or so I've read).

No fuel additives during the run with Amsoil. However I've used a boatload of fuel additives with the oil I've got in the engine right now (Castrol Syntec). I don't know what that's gonna do to the UOA.
 
Pinging can cause high levels of nitration, from what I have read and understand as well. Also, pinging causes stress on the bearings, so I would think that you'd see higher lead wear. Perhaps you could see if FluidLife could perform a retest if they still have a sample.

If not, see how your next UOAs do in terms of nitration levels.
 
Nice post!

Granted it was the shortest mileage interval, but for the money the yellow bottle pennzoil looks like a winner to me!
 
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