Chlorinated Paraffin as an oil additive

[Flywest]

Can anyone enlighten me with regard to the use of Chlorinated Parrafin, along with aromatic hydrocarbons and light oils as an engine oil additive?

We seem to have a company out of Ireland marketing a new snake oil downunder (Bi-Tron) claiming long chain carbon molecule protection, cleaning properties etc!

From their MSD sheets it appears they are using Chlorinated Paraffin >40% along with aromatic hydrocarbons (zippo lighter fluid?) and light oils, (turpentine)? as an oil additive!

I've read where this Chlorinated paraffin is used extensively in the tooling industry to prevent wear becaise of it's honey like ability to coat metal and stick to it and apparently this is what the additive proponents suggest is it's main claim to fame!

Has Bob done any additive testing such as he did with lucal additives - on Chlorinated parrafin as an engine oil additive?

Do we know what interactions with oil company add pacs this stuff might have?

If it is so good - why don't oil companys use it in their add packs already?

Hope someone can enlighten me here!

I am worried specifically about issues like 'air entrapement' in the oil - under HPOP use by a powerstroke 7.3 diesel if the additive is used!

Cheers & thanks in advance!

 

[bruce381]

Chlor parrifin are used in cutting oils to reduce tool buildup they will work very well as a AW/EP additive and have been used in greases aswell as big EMD electromotive diesel locomotives.

The down side is they will form Hydrochloric acid when heated over about 250/300F to combat this the snake oil guys will add a high amount of high base Calcium sulfonate to react with the acids as they form, most ot the snake oils will have a TBN of about 10-15.

The problem is complete reaction of acids forms since a hot engine will have a good amount of both oil and blow by vapour the acids WILL cause rust/corrosion and ultimatly bearing wear, even the nuetralized salts will be corosion to lead/babit bearings.

If used and oil changed very short intervals probley not much problem BUT is a time bomb NOT worth using that is why NO major used them is API PCMO's

Also most commercial cutiing fluids containing chlor parrifin are way cheaper one I make has 30% and sells for about $2.00 quart most snake oils are 20-40% and sell for ???
bruce

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

I think there are two big problems with Chlorinated Parrafin:

-Corrosion; since the chlorine can combine with water and form hydrochloric acid in the crankcase.

-Chlorine in the waste oil can make disposal and recycling very expensive...perhaps nearly impossible.

Chlorinated Parrafin can, and does, work and can prevent damage in certain conditions..... but overall CP is not a good choice.

CP's are also used as plasticizers, and there are some concerns with toxicity, and carcinogenicity.

 

[Flywest]

Thanks heaps guys!

This particular timken machine demonstration seemed very convincing and had me almost excited enough to part with some folding green.

http://bi-tronaustralia.com/BTAtestCD.wmv

The thing is - I am sure I've seen a similar video somewhere promoting I think teflon based super lubricant somewhere around the traps...

Promotors are claming 20 % increased mileage thru the use of the products - which is a mighty big claim!

For 20% in a F250 PSD, I would almost risk the corrosion from chlorine.....maybe!

I am wondering whetjer to give it a go and see what change it makes to my UOA's with regards wear metals (if any).

Thoughts? (Downsides?).

 

[bruce381]

chlor additives will show well on the timken salesmen test machine and it is a legitimate real test JUST the problems I mention as well as thatwouldbegreat mentioned too.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

I think you can also get good results on that Timken Bearing test simply by pouring Chlorine bleach onto the machine.

There are very few additives out there that really work.

 

[Frank]

X-1R was one of the first Friction Reducers to use "Long Chain" Chlorinated Parrifin's I know because i worked on this product I believe my cancer came fom this chemistry and that is what drove me to make a non hazardous metal cleaner (Auto-Rx) I have said this many times clean metal and AMSOIL will will out perform any friction reduction additive you can buy.

 

[bruce381]

Frank the "Short" Chain Chlor parrafin is the cancer causer not the Long chain as you stated also the "medium" chain is getting a closer look Most everyone now used medium to long chain.
bruce

 

[Lonnie]

What is the problem in daily drivers and performance street cars that CP's solve. Will my performance engine suffer because I'm only using a good oil, as compared to the dosage levels this products recommend? Would I every recover my investment and having invested in this stuff how would I ever know. There is a formulated GII+ oil with a ton of calcium in it called Oil Extreme and I've always wondered if they are messing around with CP's? After running Oil Extreme I lost a camshaft do to galling, not bad, but any is too much for me. The cam had about 200k miles on it and the engine 386k miles. I have no idea if it was caused by this oil but there was no galling when I replaced the valve seals just before using this oil. The original cam got replaced because one lobe started to wear through the hardened surface, one lobe only and I replaced it and the seals and one rocker arm. If this was the cause it took about 10k miles. I would sure like any comments, but the simple solution was to not use the oil any more. I was previously using Red Line (no kidding) and went back to it. The car then failed Calif smog and I did an Auto-Rx cycle (thank you Frank) and it passed and I'm on the second Auto-Rx cycle. Nothing is too good for my 23 year old wagon, well almost.

 

[Rolf]

Quote:

---

This particular timken machine demonstration seemed very convincing ..

---

The Timken and four-ball wear test are really tests for greases, not motor oils.

They do not correlate well to actual wear in engines.





'

 

[jonny-b]

Lonnie. I have tested the OilExtreme. Both the oil and the additive. It did not have any effect in the car I tested it in(BMW 518i 86 mod). I must add, that in this car, Auto-Rx had a positive effect and increased MPG slightly as well as smoother idling.

 

[Dad2leia]

But isn't Oil Extreme a calcium over based product and not a chlorinated paraffin?

I wanted to try Oil Extreme myself, but bruce381 convinced me that it wasn't all that impressive of a concept, and was really just a very high TBN product. Nothing there that a well formulated lubricant wouldn't already do.

 

[Lonnie]

I was just wondering if they were messing with a blend that needed to be overbased, not that they were using cp's. This oil is about nine bucks a quart, yiiikes.

 

[Dad2leia]

I don't think so. They were just giving a decent base oil an overkill calcium based package. Yeah, even though my signature says it all, even I didn't fork out the green just for calcium.

 

[Mystic]

There were at least 2 companies that used clorinated parrafins in oil supplements. Both of those companies were fined by the FTC for false advertising. The stuff can work at first but there are issues with accelerated wear over time. The oil companies apparently tested this stuff a very long time ago and rejected clorinated parrafins as oil additives a long time ago.

There is another more important issue as far as I am concerned. Clorinated parrafins have been linked to increased cancer risk. Sorry, I would rather have an engine wear out than risk cancer. We can always rebuilt or replace an engine. But when a human being dies they are gone.

I would rather stick with Auto-RX and make sure I keep my engine clean using a product that does not cause cancer.

99% of all of these mystery oil supplements are pure junk. There are only a handful of products I believe in anymore. And the list may even get smaller as time goes on. About all I believe in today are Auto-RX, Regane, Bars Leaks, Sta-bil, the Lubegard products, and the Valvoline oil supplements because they are made by Valvoline and the people at Valvoline should know what they are doing.

Something developed in somebody's back ally garage? They can keep it there as far as I am concerned.

 

[MolaKule]

Consider this: Most gear lubes used to contain chlorinated compounds but was removed because of the corrosion problems associated with it, and with the environmental/biohazards associated with it as well. Gearlubes now have additives contain a mild potassium borate additve and or a PZS additive with a basing compound.

 

[Tempest]

Do you have a link to the MSDS?

 

[Rick20]

Chorinated Parafins are real tough on copper bushings, with out a specialized copper corrosion inhibitor as well. The corrosion protection is almost always depleted within a normal oil change interval. A very short term performance gain. A definite long term disaster. The reaction with ferrous metals is ferrous chloride, under heat and pressure.

Regarding the health risk most long chain chlorinated paraffin chains are reduced to short chains under working motor conditions.

Bad idea to use these.

 

[bruce381]

""Regarding the health risk most long chain chlorinated paraffin chains are reduced to short chains under working motor conditions.""

So a C20 breaks down to a C10?

I have not looked into this in a long time but I have never heard that do you have a source/paper I can read.

Also I thought most of the testing on rats was with virgin product also ANY ZDDP motor oil that is used is Considered a carcinogen.
bruce


Also the short chain like a C10 have Higher chlorine content then a medium or long chain product I do not remember but I thought that this higher CL content was also thought to be part of the problem.

 

[tenderloin]

http://www.x1r.com/msds/EngTreat-US.MS.pdf