Chevron & Neutra Question in my oil-munching Toyota V6 and Saturn SC2

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Spring HIll
Hi, I have used a Neutra treatment and was quite happy with how much gunk it retrieved from both my 99 Sienna with the dreaded Toyota sludge-happy V6 (40K now) and my 96 Saturn DOHC SC2 (85K now). After the Neutra treatment, about 2400 miles ago, the oil looked "clean" for about the first 500 miles after the drain on the Toyota. The last 1900 miles the oil looked dark and quite dirty. I just put 5 fresh quarts in the Toyota today...the oil was quite dark, not as dark as with the Neutra treatment, but dark nonetheless. My Saturn lasted about 300 miles before the oil started looking quite dirty. The Toyota only sees Toyota filters. The Saturn sees only SuperTech filters (I'm a big spender! lol). Both only see Chevron 10W-30. I wanted to go about 2,500 miles per drain and 5,000 between filter changes with the Chevron oil. Should I change them more often? Should I use Neutra more often? Am I being overly worried? Is the oil doing it's job on my problem-child vehicles? Should I sell these things and buy other vehicles? [Smile] Do the new Sienna's with the 3.3 V6 exhibit the same sludge issues as with previous models? Honestly, I'd love to go completely synthetic, but if the engine needs more frequent drains to keep the crap out of the crankcase, Chevron it is! Thanks, Mike
 
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SF/Bay Area, CA
I would expect the oil to turn dark without the Neutra. That's what it's supposed to do (i.e. the detergent/dispersant package that already part of the oil is doing its job and "dispersing" the gunk that an internal combustion engine produces in preparation for its removal at oil change time). [ June 02, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: 68redlines73 ]
 
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Florida
Just do another drain of the dino oil at 2500 miles and put synthetic in. I would opt for the 10-30 m1 and do your changes at 4500-5000 miles. I would also do a antifreeze change in the yota if you havn't already. [Smile]
 
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Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
You can choose what oil is best for your car, but you do need to find a few things out. Is your oil turning dark because it's doing its job, stilling cleaning or is the oil breaking down. Only an oil analysis will come closest to pinning down the cause. Some engines will darken an oil quite rapidly, but not be sludgers. I do think a synthetic oil with 6-7K intervals will still be best.
 
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Leesburg, IN
Wow! this is bizzare, I have a 98SC2 with 70k on it, and a 93 Toyota Pickup with the 3.0V6. I'm running a Treatment of Auto-RX as we speak. It will take a while for me to get results (month or two as I dont drive that much) but we should keep in touch! sounds like we are running VERY similar setups!
 
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Greater Hartford, CT
I have a 2002 Sienna and have been using Chevron Supreme with 2000-mile oil changes since new--except for using Mobil-1 for long trips. If you ever take a really long trip, and for cleaning, Redline oil has performed very well in this engine (and the folks at the Redline dealer advertised here are prompt and friendly). Keep your Sienna--you won't find a quieter or more refined minivan--unless you need the extra room of the neat "new" Sienna.
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by joe4324: Wow! this is bizzare, I have a 98SC2 with 70k on it, and a 93 Toyota Pickup with the 3.0V6. I'm running a Treatment of Auto-RX as we speak. It will take a while for me to get results (month or two as I dont drive that much) but we should keep in touch! sounds like we are running VERY similar setups!
Wow--very similar setups! I'd love to see what your results are for your Saturn especially. I don't think you 93 Toyota is a sludge-prone one...if I remember right, those are the 97-03 models. You're lucky you don't have to deal with the sludge in that one! [Cheers!]
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by Pete: I have a 2002 Sienna and have been using Chevron Supreme with 2000-mile oil changes since new--except for using Mobil-1 for long trips. If you ever take a really long trip, and for cleaning, Redline oil has performed very well in this engine (and the folks at the Redline dealer advertised here are prompt and friendly).
I guess I'm not the only one changing the oil frequently on this model! Which Mobil-1 do you recommend for those long trips...dino? synthetic? Cost is always an issue as this thing goes thru more oil than most cars...
quote:
Originally posted by Pete: Keep your Sienna--you won't find a quieter or more refined minivan--unless you need the extra room of the neat "new" Sienna.
We just went to Gatlinburg,TN this past weekend thru some hefty trails a few times in the Sienna. I'm amazed at that this thing gets 22.5 MPG at 85+MPH with the air on thru all the I-40 hills! After looking at how much a new one costs...even the base CE is $24K...I'll be keeping my 99. Once it's paid off I'll go get my Tundra! [Big Grin]
 
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[Once it's paid off I'll go get my Tundra! [Big Grin] [/QB][/QUOTE] Yes,I sure love my '02 Tundra.Best truck so far. RichR [ June 06, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
 
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Leesburg, IN
I hope my toyota isnt a sludge monster! (I've never been able to "really" find out yet hehe) Anyway, I poped my valve cover and took some pics before I started my Auto-RX treatment, tonight if I dont forget I'll put them here in this thread, truthfully though I think it looked decent, barely any build ups and only a medium brown tarnish on the metal. It will be interesting to see how much of a different the auto-rx makes. I'm not expect a whole lot because like I said, it looked fairly clean to me. I try to take good care of my cars to the best of my ability (Wich lacks some I'll admit!) I'll respond tonight with some pics of the saturn [ June 03, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: joe4324 ]
 
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5,785
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Dixie
Mike, I'd go with Mobil 1, 10w-30 and 5000-6000 mile oil/filter changes on both of these engines. I honestly believe the engines will stay significantly cleaner and you'll get better long term results. I've been doing oil analysis testing for about 10 years now, and the Toyota V-6 in particular degrades oil faster than any motor I've ever come across, including turbocharged motors. Try running Mobil 1, 10w-30 in the Toyota and I think you'll find it stays noticably cleaner on the dipstick, which indicates less oxidation and nitration, ie oil degradation. I have a local customer who is running Amsoil in one of the newer 3.3L Toyota engines, so I'll have some oil analysis results to report on in perhaps 4-6 months. I expect the newer engine design to be a bit better with regards to oil degradation. TooSlick
 
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Greater Hartford, CT
Run the Mobil-1 10W-30...it has a better cold-crank viscosity then most dino 5W-30s... Also, on your dino changes, you may not need to change out your filter @2000 miles. Mpg for the Sienna van is indeed very good. My running average over 28,000 miles is 23.1 mpg (and that includes the winter). Our engines are slightly different; do you run 91 octane, if your manual calls for it? (mine does for "improved engine performance," and my mileage is better with 91 vs 87 octane.)
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by Pete: Run the Mobil-1 10W-30...it has a better cold-crank viscosity then most dino 5W-30s... Also, on your dino changes, you may not need to change out your filter @2000 miles. Mpg for the Sienna van is indeed very good. My running average over 28,000 miles is 23.1 mpg (and that includes the winter). Our engines are slightly different; do you run 91 octane, if your manual calls for it? (mine does for "improved engine performance," and my mileage is better with 91 vs 87 octane.)
I've been using 87 octane. I'll try a tankful or two of the good stuff to see if it improves mileage. Thanks for the tip!
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: Mike, I'd go with Mobil 1, 10w-30 and 5000-6000 mile oil/filter changes on both of these engines. I honestly believe the engines will stay significantly cleaner and you'll get better long term results. I've been doing oil analysis testing for about 10 years now, and the Toyota V-6 in particular degrades oil faster than any motor I've ever come across, including turbocharged motors. Try running Mobil 1, 10w-30 in the Toyota and I think you'll find it stays noticably cleaner on the dipstick, which indicates less oxidation and nitration, ie oil degradation. TooSlick
The largest caveat I have about running oil past the 3K mark in these motors is how fast it chews it up. I settled on the Chevron 2,500 mile drain for the sake of "inexpensive" and "trustworthy". So far, you're not the only board member here telling me to move to Mobil 1 10w-30...it must be good. I just need the bump in confidence to use oil past 3K on these cars! [Smile]
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: I have a local customer who is running Amsoil in one of the newer 3.3L Toyota engines, so I'll have some oil analysis results to report on in perhaps 4-6 months. I expect the newer engine design to be a bit better with regards to oil degradation. TooSlick
I would really like to see the results for this new engine...hopefully it won't be as hard on oil as it's predecessor. Mike
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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Would it be better to use Amsoil over Mobil 1? Seeing as the price is not much more for Amsoil, I figure 8,000 miles is the break-even point (in terms of $$$) for the Toyota and 12,000 miles for the Saturn. I've read in other recent messages on this board that Amsoil can achieve 8,000 miles in the Toyota and still have life remaining. What do you think about the Saturn DOHC and Amsoil? Would it make the 12,000 mile mark? I guess a UOA is in order... [Cheers!] Mike
 
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Mike, I'd try the Mobil 1, 10w-30 first in both of these, with a 5000 mile change in the Toyota and a 6000-7000 mile change in the Saturn. If you aren't satisfied with the results, drop me a line and we'll see if we can't improve on them with one of the Amsoil formulations. The drain intervals you mention are certainly doable. Mobil 1 is my main competitor - I wouldn't recommend it if it wasn't a good value for the money. TooSlick Dixie Synthetics
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by Pete: If you are going to go synthetic, unless you will be buying the 5-qt jugs of Mobil-1 at Wal-Mart, why not just pay $7/quart and get Redline? No worries.
I've only heard of Redline from other message threads here so I don't know much about it...how does Redline compare to Amsoil in the Toyota/Saturn environment?
 

ToyotaNSaturn

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quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: Mike, I'd try the Mobil 1, 10w-30 first in both of these, with a 5000 mile change in the Toyota and a 6000-7000 mile change in the Saturn. TooSlick Dixie Synthetics
TooSlick--I'm assuming that you're referring to the Mobil 1 10w-30 synthetic product, not the dino oil...
 
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pete: There's a bunch of info on the home page of this site, www.bobistheoilguy.com including basic oil knowledge. There's also a section on Toyota Oil Recommendations, discussing why these engines are tough on oil. Hey Pete, I own two oil munchin' Toyotas.I cannot find the recommendation area you mentioned.Can you "show" me where it is? Thanks RichR
 
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