Chemical and Safety for DIYers for your own car

[maximum6]

Recently I have been thinking alot about safety for the DIYers for cars. Was changing my fuel filter on my VW GTI and some fuel spilled out and even hit my mouth. I had safety glasses on, nitrile gloves, and also took a spit.
But since then I have been thinking about chemical safety and health safety. I read that gasoline for cars is about 1% for Benzene which is the stuff that is believed to cause cancer like leukemia.

Anyway I was wondering if anybody here is also very particular about safety when working around cars. Things like Brakes and asbestos. I read that the Wet Wipe method is the way to decrease chances of the Asbestos from being hazardous. Does Brake cleaner do okay for the Asbestos?

-This is what I found as an approved method for preventing Asbesto exposure (https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/brakesfinal-3-07.pdf)

If you work in a commercial automotive shop that
performs work on no more than five brake or clutch
jobs per week, OSHA regulations allow the following
method instead:
Wet Wipe Method This method involves using a spray
bottle or other device capable of delivering a fine mist of
water, or amended water (water with a detergent), at
low pressure to wet all brake and clutch parts. The
brakes can then be wiped clean with a cloth.


As far as Oil change or Differential Oil change, i haven't read anything in regards to concerns about smelling the fumes. Coolant fumes may be a different story.

Anybody have their insight on safety?

 

[Leo99]

The professionals that have exposure to these chemicals on a daily basis are the ones that really need to worry.

Do they still use asbestos in brakes? Thought they stopped that a long time ago.

 

[PeterPolyol]

Ever wonder why brake guys got paid more than a transmission guy? Jobs that are bad for your health pay a lot. Welders breathing flux fumes all day, could you imagine?

Benzene is not fun. It accumulates in bone marrow (thus leukemia) and is difficult to remove from it. Leukemia is also a very slow process. When toxicant damage occurs to people over a sufficiently long term people will fail to associate the exposure and the disease. Sadly, that "long term" isn't very long at all in practice, maybe a week? We're hopeless like that...

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by Leo99
Do they still use asbestos in brakes? Thought they stopped that a long time ago.


It is my understanding that certain compounds, especially more "racing" intended ones, do contain asbestos to some degree.

When I work on my car at home I usually have gloves on, either nitrile or Mechanix Wear. I also usually have sunglasses on that also happen to be ANSI rated. Although I am usually in shorts and flip flops.

 

[maximum6]

Benzene is also in Used motor oil, and I'm sure most of us here do our own oil changes. Does the motor oil/benzene absorb through the skin? Can it be inhaled from the smell of the oil?

I believe i read to treat any brake job as if there are Asbestos.

 

[Traction]

After just recently going through 12 cans of brake cleaner cleaning the 16 x 3 inch drum brakes in the rear of my 1950 Chevy 1.5 ton truck, I thought there must be a better way when I do the fronts. So I sprayed them down with dawn, and hit it with a pressure washer and everything was gone. I was even able to use the original 2400 mile brake shoes that had some fluid on them. Brake fluid washes away great with just water. That was the best method I've used ever. I hate brake cleaner. I started using 90% rubbing alcohol on many things I use to use brake cleaner on, and other than being somewhat flammable it seems much safer to be around, and works great. We used to use the really nasty electrical cleaner when I was in the Navy, and it sure seems a lot like the brake cleaner everyone uses now. And keep it away from heat sources!!! Gives off Phosgene gas according to the instructions on the can. I figured that out after using it around a heater once long ago.

 

[gathermewool]

Relative exposure needs to be taken into consideration. Unless you're wrenching on your and your wife's and your cousin's friend's entire social network, I don't see much need to fret.

I wonder if my current dry-knuckles issue is related to not using gloves while cleaning lube-oil-separator plates (among other things) in diesel oil baths, I truly do. I'm sure the average shipboard air quality was also quite abysmal, compared to your average office environment. I remember getting laughed at when I asked for proper welding PPE. I remember the 2nd engineer getting laughed at when he wore nitrile gloves every single time he handled lube oil. I remember higher ups in the CoC getting annoyed with me when I'd insist on putting in my hearing protection prior to entering engineering spaces. Even with OSHA breathing down our necks, the old and wisened folk were still too manly for PPE in many regards. it was really pretty crappy having to take care of number 1.

With all of that, I can be reasonable sure that the small amount of brake pad material, brake fluid and fuel skin exposure and pretty much every other exposure to minimal amounts of bad things is small compared to other risks in my life. I feel like I can get cancer from a long list of other things in my life well before I get cancer from my DIY activities.

With that said, I now try to always wear the proper PPE and ensure I don't expose myself needlessly to any chemical no matter how benign (e.g., WD-40 smells pretty sweet, doesn't it - it CAN'T be bad at all for me to ingest a bit of something that smells so good every now and again, right???)

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Traction
I started using 90% rubbing alcohol on many things I use to use brake cleaner on, and other than being somewhat flammable it seems much safer to be around, and works great.
Alcohol is pretty effective, relatively safe and 99% is cheap at Costco, it's definitely my go-to solvent. Acetone is also very useful.

 

[maximum6]

I don't see the alcohol except at the Costco Buisness center

 

[nthach]

The trend at some shops is using an aqueous brake cleaning system. Safety-Kleen has been pushing Arma-Clean for brakes and yes, it's more expensive than aerosol brake cleaners but the reduction in airborne dust and VOCs is worth it to some shops. It's this guy: https://www.safety-kleen.com/produc...es/aqueous-parts-washers/manual/model-26

I think for the average hobbyist and mechanic, the chemical/dust exposure isn't bad - yes in some states like California less-powerful cleaners and solvents have been pushed by government but there is a bigger benefit in being less hazardous to workers. Yes, I know old-school Chemdip, GM Top Engine Cleaner and chlorinated brake cleaner work much better than their "green" counterparts. But if you factor in long-term exposure it's better on a health perspective.

I think the most exposure to chemicals and hazardous dusts in the automotive business is the bodyshop - exposure to welding fumes and body filler dust, and if you're a painter/prepper exposure to benzene/toluene and worse of all isocyanates in primers/clears. Again, some bodymen are grousing about waterborne paint and low-VOC paint systems(in CA, clearcoats can't be above 2.1VOC, primers are capped at 2.8VOC and basecoats are maxed out at 3.5VOC) because they apply differently than old-school high-VOC systems or don't provide that glassy look of lacquer. But the trade-off is less exposure to chemicals and a "healthier" work environment at the shop.

 

[nthach]

And also, the brake manufacturers are now recommending a soap and water wash for new or machined rotors - I know Wagner, Centric and one of the trade organizations are big proponents of hot, soapy water and a scrub brush for rotors. I think I prefer the smell of Dawn or Dr. Bronner's to acetone/methanol/hexane or perc/chloroform anyday.

 

[Traction]

Originally Posted by maximum6
I don't see the alcohol except at the Costco Buisness center

You can buy it at any grocery/drug store cheap. Plus it works good to clean up your greasy finger you just cut, with a paper towel and tape for a Band-Aid.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by maximum6
I don't see the alcohol except at the Costco Buisness center
I live in Toronto, and it is sold near the pharmacy. Four 500ml bottles for like $8 or $9 when they are $7 or so each at Walmart.

 

[JHZR2]

I like the idea of cleaning with soap and water, but as a DIYer, that's an added step and then drying time thst Imdont have time for.

Non chlorinated brake cleaner is a lot of acetone, which could be used as a drying aid after.... I kind of like that idea.

I do wear gloves when wrenching, but quite often they get holes, sweaty underneath, and I'm still dirty and greasy.

I feel for people who have chronic exposure. It can have a real effect. For a seldom exposed shade tree DIYer, the dose and number of repeat doses are both low. So it's not a huge concern for many things. Still reduced exposure is something that IMO should be strived to minimize. PPE is accessible.

The more the exposure, the more the care that should be taken.

 

[mclasser]

Automotive chemicals contain some nasty things. Whenever I check fluids or do anything on my car (including waxing, polishing, treating leather, cleaning windows, etc), I wear gloves. Of course, being an occasional DIYer, I'm not exposed as much as the pros but I'm just paranoid when it comes to handling any chemicals.

 

[eljefino]

There used to be a choice in brake cleaners here but now we're down to one here. Used to have non-flammable and non-chlorinated. It's my understanding it's the same stuff as dry cleaning solution, and there are people that swim in that stuff 40 hours a week.

The phosgene thing is real. Do a post-clean hose-down. Windshield washer fluid (methanol) in a garden sprayer isn't a bad idea though it might have a tiny amount of soap that would be bad if you're doing paint prep or whatever.

Benzene is also in steak if you cook it too long. Just try to cut your exposure when you can. The Germans call gas benzin, so, yeah, there it is.

IDK who'd want the liability of making asbestos linings. The Chinese selling on ebay, maybe?

The stuff was banned then unbanned in 1989 in automotive applications.

The world's a better place without MEK. Nitrile gloves are also good for you in multiple ways, sweat be darned.

 

[RooflessVW]

I always use nitrile gloves, even when detailing.

I always wear the necessary eye pro and ear pro, and I bust out my face shield when grinding or cutting.

My go to solvent is 99% isopropyl in a spray bottle. Safe, cleans very well, evaporates fast, and doesn't stink.

I used to throw caution to the wind, but I feel less and less indestructible as the years go by.

 

[ecotourist]

There are small amounts of benzene in gasoline. A lot more in 3rd world countries. And benzene is an important cause of blood abnormalities including some types of leukemia. There are 3 routes of exposure - oral, respiratory and cutaneous. But remember that "the dose makes the poison". So avoid excessive breathing of gasoline fumes, don't wash greasy parts in gasoline with your bare hands (for fire safety reasons as well), and obviously don't drink the stuff. But overall, the amount of exposure for a careful DIYer is not likely to be significant.

It is still legal to import finished products containing asbestos into Canada. Don't know about the US. And asbestos is a cause of a serious lung disease (asbestosis) and a number of cancers either directly or indirectly (for example by causing asbestosis). So there still may be asbestos in brake shoes or clutches sold in Canada. But here's the thing - the dust resulting from the use of asbestos containing brake shoes doesn't contain asbestos (at least so I'm told). The theory is that asbestos will be broken down into short lengths which are no longer asbestos fibres. That's not to say that the dust is perfectly safe. It's still an inorganic dust and can be deposited deep in your respiratory tree. So don't clean off brake or clutch components with a blast of air. Do use a wet method. From a health point of view, water would be ideal.

And I wouldn't grind or shape new brake shoes. If they did contain asbestos, the dust produced by grinding or shaping them likely would too. If I really really really had to grind or shape new brake shoes I would use a full asbestos personal exposure and environmental containment strategy.

Used motor oil contains polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). And PAHs are a cause of a number of cancers. But remember that "the dose makes the poison". So limit your exposure to used motor oil. Wear gloves. And wash your hands after handling used motor oil. If you get used motor oil on your clothing, wash it.

Remember that solvents work their way through glove material. And a combination of solvents can work through much faster than any of the individual components. So don't use the same gloves over and over again over long periods. Though they're not ideal, I use latex free gloves once and done.

High tech paints and epoxies contain important respiratory and skin sensitizers. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't use Toluene Di-Isocyanate (TDI) containing paints at all without a supplied air breathing system - the respiratory outcome is just too serious. And you should never get epoxy on your skin.

I really don't trust nano particles. They have important toxic features that are sometimes quite different from the substance(s) they're made from. So nano particles of even common substances could be a health hazard. And it may take decades to find out. I avoid them if at all possible.

Protect your eyes, don't work under a car supported only by a jack, and use hearing protection where you would have to raise your voice to be heard at a meter (3 feet). A careful and informed DIYer can work quite safely.

 

[TheLawnRanger]

I've always been afraid of antifreeze and its deadly potential. I remind myself that mechanics work with it every day and they are fine.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by nthach
And also, the brake manufacturers are now recommending a soap and water wash for new or machined rotors - I know Wagner, Centric and one of the trade organizations are big proponents of hot, soapy water and a scrub brush for rotors. I think I prefer the smell of Dawn or Dr. Bronner's to acetone/methanol/hexane or perc/chloroform anyday.


Ford has been recommending that for years on rotors. Especially after they have been machined. I tell people that when they buy pads OTC and I usually get the "I know what I am doing" response.