Changing oil at other than dealer question.

Messages
1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
To all those who think that their automobile manufacturer will warrent an engine claim (oil related) where the oil changes were done other than at the dealer. Why do you believe this? This doesn't even touch the topic of API or proper viscocity. Personally I believe that the burden of proof will always fall on the victim, meaning you the consumer.
 

Al

Messages
19,200
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
The manuals don't indicate the level of documentation that is required for an oil change. In otherwords they have not indicated a standard. Therefore you should be able to walk in with a poece of paper stating date and milage when you changed the oil. Even that is not totally necessary. In theory they need to prove that you abused the vehicle by not changing oil. Having said that-this is not a perfect world and the better you keep your documentation the better off you will be. I have had engine related work in the past and was never even asked for any documentation for oil changes.
 
Messages
47,693
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I have found that some (not ALL) dealer service writers get all puffy just at the mere fact that "you change you own oil"...but when the consumer stands up and the facts come out, this buffoon usually a) has zero to back up his imagined position b) strangly doesn't know squat about what the waranty actually says. As an Amsoil dealer I say to NEW car owners: a) never do an extended drain out of the blocks (well no sh#t - if you've learned anything here) b) never do extended drains without UOA's c) the good thing about any good oil chosen with b above, you should easily be able to do the max owner's manual length. d) always use the vicosity recommended. e) if you are worried about API, use the cheaper quality Amsoil products.
 
Messages
4,633
Location
The Garden State
Unless the dealer and or the Car Manufacture's area service rep are total hardheads they should accept your maintenance log and receipts showing the purchase of the appropriate oil and filter. Even if you buy the oil and filters in bulk. Really the only way they can hold maintenance neglect against you is if the engine is sludged up or they spend money to prove that the oil is worn out and you didn't change it according to their schedule. And the latter is a very long shot. Whimsey
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
I would think that if you do consistent UOAs on your new car, and your lab shows the car it's being done on, along with it's mileage, that should be more than enough proof to the car companies that people are changing their oil on time.
 
Messages
4,478
Location
Southern California
UOAs certainly wouldn't hurt, but I doubt it's necessary for the average owner to go that far. The burden of proof will always be on the dealer or manufacturer that timely maintenance wasn't performed. If an owner can show documentation - even just a handwritten log - AND receipts for purchase of sufficient quantity oil to account for the log'd maintenance, it's not likely an arbitrator or judge would side with the manufacturer or dealer. I also happen to believe that if maintenance is performed according to the owner's manual's schedule in the service severity category applicable, it would be very unlikely to lead to an oil related failure (presuming use of the applicable viscosity grade and API or ACEA service category motor oil), anyway. Excluding competition, how many oil-related failures occur during the warranty period to vehicles in which engine oil, oil filter, and air filter are changed according to the manufacturer's service and severity recommendations? And I'm taking into consideration the use of common, applicable service rated, dinasaur juice oils. Believe what you wish, wulimaster, but I'm not at all worried. (Why the unfounded paranoia?)
 
Messages
146
Location
Irvine or Berkeley, Ca
the only problem is that dealers very often ignore that afct and force the car owner into paying for it. I have heard horror stories of Toyota dealerships doing this (not about the sludge problem).
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Ray H: UOAs certainly wouldn't hurt, but I doubt it's necessary for the average owner to go that far.
True, but I was basically offering an alternative to readers of this site, who are more likely to do UOAs than the average motorist. Doing UOAs and keeping all the hard copy for possible warranty work is proof, almost without a doubt, that someone is doing oil changes on time, as opposed to simply showing receipts from purchased oil.
 
Messages
220
Location
NH
They do this. I'm unsure of self oil changes but if another garage (independant) performs the work you only need the receipts for the work performed. This typically state the type used, mileage etc.
 
Messages
688
Location
Morgantown, WV
Well first off you'll need to have an oil-related engine failure for it to even be an issue. The chances of that happening are about a bazillion to one if you change your oil at all. Then after that they'd have to prove that your oil changes caused the failure, which is gonna be pretty tough if you have documentation on your side. Cheers, 3MP
 
Messages
3,216
Location
BC, Canada
It appears that performing UOAs are some people's hobbie. [Roll Eyes] I can understand that they are necessary say for the railroad where I work. 1500 2.5 million dollar locomotives X 350 gallons of oil each. But to spend 10 bucks to save 10 bucks???? I may do a UOA some day, just to prove a point if I had a point to prove.
 
Messages
3,023
Location
USA-Michigan
quote:
Originally posted by 3 Mad Ponchos: Well first off you'll need to have an oil-related engine failure for it to even be an issue. The chances of that happening are about a bazillion to one if you change your oil at all. Then after that they'd have to prove that your oil changes caused the failure, which is gonna be pretty tough if you have documentation on your side. Cheers, 3MP
Finally someone with commmon sense!! If you are afraid the dealer service people are going to give you a hard time over something that may happen, your are parnoid. The people who come in the door with a chip on their shoulders are the ones who stand the greatest chance of having problems.
 
Messages
3,650
Location
St. Charles County, Missouri
Suprised that no one mentioned Magnuson-Moss. If the manufacturer specifies that a dealer must change the oil, then the manufacturer must supply the oil and service as part of the sales price. That does not mean that some snotty manufacturers (Toyota for one)won't try their responsibilities under the law.
 
Messages
235
Location
Ar
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly: It appears that performing UOAs are some people's hobbie. [Roll Eyes] I can understand that they are necessary say for the railroad where I work. 1500 2.5 million dollar locomotives X 350 gallons of oil each. But to spend 10 bucks to save 10 bucks???? I may do a UOA some day, just to prove a point if I had a point to prove.
[Off Topic!] You said exactly what was on my mind!!
 
Messages
1,533
Location
Ephraim
quote:
Originally posted by wulimaster: To all those who think that their automobile manufacturer will warrent an engine claim (oil related) where the oil changes were done other than at the dealer. Why do you believe this? This doesn't even touch the topic of API or proper viscocity. Personally I believe that the burden of proof will always fall on the victim, meaning you the consumer.
No racing or neglect here but; Has there ever been an engine failures due to oil?
 

Al

Messages
19,200
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly: I may do a UOA some day, just to prove a point if I had a point to prove.
Ha Ha Ha Ha good one. [Cheers!] I doubt that few folke do the UOA to save money on oil changes by extending the interval. I do it because I enjou seeing results with different oil/drain interval. Its sort of a hoby. But the other reason is that a UOA tells if you have a coolant leak, silicon intake problem, wear problem, or perhaps bad combustion/fuel dilution. In this case it could be a money saving thing- but not likely. Its an addiction [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]
 

CJH

Messages
489
Location
Pennsylvania
I think it was a cat named Liebnez (sp?) (if my memory is correct)...who invented the mathematical science of Calculus...who said something like: "When I can measure something and express it in numbers, I know something about it. When it cannot be measured or expressed in numbers, knowledge is of the meager and unsatisfactory kind." Not the exact quote...but close.
quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly: It appears that performing UOAs are some people's hobbie. [Roll Eyes] I can understand that they are necessary say for the railroad where I work. 1500 2.5 million dollar locomotives X 350 gallons of oil each. But to spend 10 bucks to save 10 bucks???? I may do a UOA some day, just to prove a point if I had a point to prove.
 
Top