Changing Definition of Severe Service

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4,632
Location
Decatur AL USA
Almost every car used to qualify for severe duty. ie mostly city driving, sustained high speed, high or low temps used to qualify as severe duty. Seems only cars driven between 50-80F at 55mph on the Highway used to qualify for the regular interval. My 2004 Focus Owners Manual has the folowing definition of Severe Duty: Towing Heavy Commercial Use Operating in Dusty Conditions Off Road Operations Seems the vast majority of passenger vehicles now qualify for the Regular Service Interval. I assume most Trucks, UVs (Full Size) , and SUVs (Compacts) that are actually used as intended will still be Severe Duty. Of course most SUV owners use them as glorified station wagons and car based SUVs are a different animal entirely. Is this a Ford only change related to the adoption of 5W-20? I would assume meeting WSS-M2C-153H (Group II/III Blend or at least II+ with a robust additive package) would reduce shearing and increase the longevity of th oil over a low-end SL 5W-30. Any thoughts on this?
 
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9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: This is the case with Toyota as well. It is actualy getting hard to meet sever service requirments were years ago just about all vechiles were in the sever service group! Seing how filters and lubes have not come so far along as to bridge the gap so to speak I think it is a marketing decision. I think itis a way for the OEM to reduce initial ownership costs on paper by pushing the service intervalout farther. A lot of people are leaseing now(do not ask me why). One of the factors that some people use is the cost of ownership like gas,oil scheduled maintence dureing the lease period etc..... Personely consummer leseing is a scourge on all car drivers. You end up with people that should be driveing a Cavalier lessing a Cadilac. These same people can not afford to maintain the vechile let alone repair it if they break something under lease. They drive the pi$$ out of them going to jiffy lube every 17,000 miles and getting a $19 oil change of 8 quarts of insert brand here 5W30 etc... By the end of the lese they have changed the oil 1-2 times in 36,000 miles and nothing else has been done to the car either. THey drive them 90MPH on the HWY....... Then some schmuck goes to his Cadilac dealer and thinks he is getting a great deal on a nice clean Deville. He gets it home and within 6 months finds out that the car burns oil like crazy and is starting to fall apart! Yesterday I was at Krogers picking up some grocery items. I walk out to my car and guess what I see. I see a white STS. The rear fascia is covered with black soot and oil all the way across due to dual exhaust! I am talking early 1980's GM small block diesel like soot and oil on the back of this car!!! I almost fell over! It had blooms of dark diesel like smoke comeing out the pipe.
John: I think you've pretty well identified the dark side of leasing. A very good friend of mine (smart guy, but car moron) bought a two-year-old Lexus ES-300 like that, without any inspection at all. He had me look it over, and when I did, I almost fell over. I was able to scoop bulk sludge out of the 3.0L V-6's shallow, baffled oil filler opening with my finger!!! How sludge made it up there, I don't even want to know. The ATF, yes ATF not motor oil, was cloudy jet black and had tiny metal particles glittering from the gloom. Somone must have set out to torture this car, something that's pretty much only going to happen on a lease. On the other hand, there is a silver lining to this cloud. I've used leases a couple times to give a car an extended tryout period. Our Sequoia is a great example. This car has been such a stellar performer that I just aborted the lease and bought it (long story, but good price). The great UOA result that I posted a couple days ago confirmed that we have a winner. Had the car shown any signs of being a dog, I'd just have turned it in and walked away. But overall yes, leases are probably not a good thing in the consumer car world.
 
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7,409
Location
Austin, TX
'89 Toyota Severe Schedule Requirements: 1)Towing 2)Operating dusty, or rough, muddy roads. 3)Repeated short trips under 5 miles with oustside temperatures remaining below freezing. 4) Excessive idling and/or low speed driving for long distances, such as police, taxi or door-to-door delievry use. Is this much different than today's recommended severe schedule?
 
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9,448
Location
USA
ekpolk, No reason Lexus should be any differnt! If you abuse them it shows up sooner rather then later! I am in GM country and work for the General so I see mostly GM products!
 

Gene K

Thread starter
Messages
4,632
Location
Decatur AL USA
quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06: '89 Toyota Severe Schedule Requirements: 1)Towing 2)Operating dusty, or rough, muddy roads. 3)Repeated short trips under 5 miles with oustside temperatures remaining below freezing. 4) Excessive idling and/or low speed driving for long distances, such as police, taxi or door-to-door delievry use. Is this much different than today's recommended severe schedule?
Not really (although the Ford manual deletes #3) but in the past US companies would have just said anyone with any one of the following, 1. Frequent trips under 5ml. 2. Sustained High Speeds (55 mph+?). 3. High Temps (Above 90F?) 4. Low Temps (Below Freezing?) required the Severe Service Interval. This basically meant 90% of drivers. Gene
 
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36,465
Location
ME
quote:
I assume most Trucks, UVs (Full Size) , and SUVs (Compacts) that are actually used as intended will still be Severe Duty. Of course most SUV owners use them as glorified station wagons and car based SUVs are a different animal entirely.
My 91 Dodge dakota owner's manual says something about off road or idling requiring an oil change every XX hours. That covers the "extra super severe service". [Smile] [crushedcar]
 
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22,467
Location
Apple Valley, California
[Off Topic!] Kinda. I'm leasing my 02 Jeep TJ. I could not afford the $450 a month payments to buy it. My lease is $300.00. When my lease is up I have the option to purchase it at an already set price of 9K +tax-n-stuff. It's original oil and filter were changed at 1k and It has never gone over 3400 miles between changes. I even sent in a sample of havoline 10w/30 once. Right now it has $75.00 worth of Torco SR-5 in it. [Cheers!] I also have some Synchromesh fluid for the trans which I plan on changing soon. Not all of us leasers are bad. If I decide to not purchase it at the end I will be able to sleep at night knowing that someone got a well maintained Jeep.
 

TC

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1,644
Location
California
This is Quaker State's take on this from their website: "We emphasize severe service since the majority of motor vehicles are operated in severe driving conditions such as short trips (under 10 miles), dusty or sandy conditions, cold weather, extended idling periods, trailer towing or other harsh conditions. Under ideal conditions, however, such as a dust-free climate, highway driving, light loads, perfect engine performance, etc., the oil drain interval may be extended to the vehicle manufacturer’s recommended 'normal service' period (generally between 3,000 to 7,500 miles)." Mobil 1's definition of Severe Service: Trips of less than 10 miles, driving in dust or sand, extremely cold weather, idling for extended periods, and pulling trailers. Ideal service operation consists of relatively high-speed driving (35 to 55 mph) on paved roads in dust-free areas. [ June 06, 2004, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
 
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6,091
Location
northern Alabama
My '02 Honda Accord manual state: Follow the severe conditions maintenance schedule if you drive your vehicle MAINLY under one or more of the following conditions: Driving less than 5 miles per trip or, in freezing temperatures, driving less than 10 miles per trip. Driving in extremely hot (over 90°F) conditions. Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. Trailer towing, driving with a car top carrier, or driving in mountainous conditions. Driving on muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads. What struck me as odd was the car top carrier comment [I dont know]
 
Messages
39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
quote:
A lot of people are leaseing now(do not ask me why)
Simple ..it cost only a few hundred dollars more even if you buy the vehicle ..so if your intent on buying a specific vehicle ..why put out all that extra cash during the first 5 years of ownership? Our 99 TJ would have been over $600 a month to buy. So we lease for $300/month for the same 5 years ..our residual is $11k ...besides the interest on the 11k ..what did I lose? Now I AM BUYING AN EXPENSIVE USED CAR ..but I wouldn't have gotten 89,000 miles (60 month lease) any cheaper. In the final tab ..it comes out to a few hundred $$$ different ..but I liberated so much more cash when the cash had higher buying power.
 
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
This is the case with Toyota as well. It is actualy getting hard to meet sever service requirments were years ago just about all vechiles were in the sever service group! Seing how filters and lubes have not come so far along as to bridge the gap so to speak I think it is a marketing decision. I think itis a way for the OEM to reduce initial ownership costs on paper by pushing the service intervalout farther. A lot of people are leaseing now(do not ask me why). One of the factors that some people use is the cost of ownership like gas,oil scheduled maintence dureing the lease period etc..... Personely consummer leseing is a scourge on all car drivers. You end up with people that should be driveing a Cavalier lessing a Cadilac. These same people can not afford to maintain the vechile let alone repair it if they break something under lease. They drive the pi$$ out of them going to jiffy lube every 17,000 miles and getting a $19 oil change of 8 quarts of insert brand here 5W30 etc... By the end of the lese they have changed the oil 1-2 times in 36,000 miles and nothing else has been done to the car either. THey drive them 90MPH on the HWY....... Then some schmuck goes to his Cadilac dealer and thinks he is getting a great deal on a nice clean Deville. He gets it home and within 6 months finds out that the car burns oil like crazy and is starting to fall apart! Yesterday I was at Krogers picking up some grocery items. I walk out to my car and guess what I see. I see a white STS. The rear fascia is covered with black soot and oil all the way across due to dual exhaust! I am talking early 1980's GM small block diesel like soot and oil on the back of this car!!! I almost fell over! It had blooms of dark diesel like smoke comeing out the pipe.
 
Messages
8,937
Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Gene K: Is this a Ford only change related to the adoption of 5W-20? I would assume meeting WSS-M2C-153H (Group II/III Blend or at least II+ with a robust additive package) would reduce shearing and increase the longevity of th oil over a low-end SL 5W-30. Any thoughts on this?
I think you've hit the nail on the head. The severe service requirments have always been based on what an oil can handle. If a better oil is prescribed, then the definition of "severe" has to be adjusted accordingly. The flip side is that if this oil can go the full distance under what used to be "severe" conditions, then it no doubt can go EXTENDED distances under what used to be "normal" conditions.
 
Messages
89
Location
Hamilton, ON
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning Personely consummer leseing is a scourge on all car drivers. You end up with people that should be driveing a Cavalier lessing a Cadilac. These same people can not afford to maintain the vechile let alone repair it if they break something under lease. They drive the pi$$ out of them going to jiffy lube every 17,000 miles and getting a $19 oil change of 8 quarts of insert brand here 5W30 etc... By the end of the lese they have changed the oil 1-2 times in 36,000 miles and nothing else has been done to the car either. THey drive them 90MPH on the HWY....... Then some schmuck goes to his Cadilac dealer and thinks he is getting a great deal on a nice clean Deville. He gets it home and within 6 months finds out that the car burns oil like crazy and is starting to fall apart!
Many people who buy their cars outright do much the same thing. I took care of my leased car, and did regular oil changes. I know someone who bought a new (minivan), and did not do an oil change for 6 years. And yeah, it was a daily driver. Then he got pi$$ed at Mazda when the Check Engine light came on for making a POS car. [No no] And as for driving a Caddy on a Crappalier budget, just how do you fit more than one baby, with the strollers, diaper bags, and other assorted paraphinalia (sp?) into some car that doesn't even have room for a hockey bag. That's why I bought my '92 Roadmaster. And speaking of which, said Roadmaster Owner's Manual says that I should be doing OCI's of 6 months (dino!!), because it only has severe service for towing, dusty conditions and trips of less than 5 miles. [ June 07, 2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Vuarra ]
 
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4,872
Location
MN
Well they do promote extended drains on their base product. Their Dino says it's good beyond 3000 miles. -T
 
Messages
1,357
Location
California, USA
quote:
Originally posted by TC: This is Quaker State's take on this from their website: "We emphasize severe service since the majority of motor vehicles are operated in severe driving conditions such as short trips (under 10 miles), dusty or sandy conditions, cold weather, extended idling periods, trailer towing or other harsh conditions. Under ideal conditions, however, such as a dust-free climate, highway driving, light loads, perfect engine performance, etc., the oil drain interval may be extended to the vehicle manufacturer?s recommended 'normal service' period (generally between 3,000 to 7,500 miles)...
What do you expect from the parent company of Jiffy Lube? Extended drains are a pure net loss to them.
 
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