Ceratec + LubeGard?

Joined
Aug 1, 2022
Messages
24
So here's some background. I've got a Hemi with a low oil pressure situation, and I want to protect it as best as possible - but I have to drive it a few times before it gets fixed. Kind of a rock vs hard place.

The pressure is only a problem until the engine has warmed up, specifically when the oil temp reaches 185 degrees, after which I immediately gain about 20psi at 600 rpm. Weird, yes :) Startup is pretty noisy for a few moments, but it's not gotten worse, and sounds like it's only in the upper end. If I manually keep the engine at around 1.5k it seems to be ok while it warms up.

I think I have two different things going on. One (and the main problem) is likely a partially bad oil pickup o-ring, and/or maybe a crack developing in the plastic integrated pickup tube.

The other - and I know this sounds funky, but it is happening consistently - is the 20psi jump in oil pressure @ 185 degrees oil temp. I've also seen where plugging a computer running AlfaODB into the OBD2 port caused a similar pressure jump; that happened exactly once, but it did happen. I've not run across anything to indicate some kind of valve changing status that could account for this, so I'm as stumped as Macca's 2nd wife.

Back to the o-ring/pickup tube. I've changed the oil twice since starting this project, and both times the first startup after adding the oil was quiet and normal. I'm thinking that the level of oil in the pan was initially higher, because it hasn't distributed through the engine - then subsequent startups were low pressure & noisy, because the oil level was lower (because the oil filter anti-drain back valve was keeping it in the engine, as it should).

So, I want to raise the level of the oil in the sump by (say) a quart, and see if this helps matters. I'll be driving it carefully because of the possibility of foaming the oil. I have 6 quarts of 5w30 Mobil 1 EP in already, and a quart of LubeGard, for a total of 7 quarts which is nominal for a 3rd gen Hemi. This additional amount can be more M1 EP 5w30, but I also have a bottle of Ceratec here. I'm wondering if it would be not totally insane to put that in, which would be alongside the LubeGard.

Price/cost is not an issue - the Ceratec was $28, engine work is different. I just wondered if anyone had experience doing this, and can indicate a hard no, because of an incompatibility between both products?
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
5,068
Location
Kansas
Lubegard would be counterproductive using Ceratec as they would be competing against each other. Use the LG as directed and give it a chance to do what it might do. It would be easier to go lubegard and then mos2 or vice versa.
 

capacitor

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 1, 2022
Messages
24
Thanks. The original plan was to use a decent oil + LubeGard, then once things were figured out (and corrected) a great oil + Ceratec, then back to something like LG or MoS2 + a great oil at the following regular OCI.

It sounds like LubeGard would/might prevent Ceratec from doing it's thing?

Maybe I should do another oil change and use Ceratec? I don't mind spending the money if there's any kind of positive benefit. Edit: I mean short-term, vs LubeGard.

M1 EP 5w30 was hard to find without driving about :45 out of my way, the last go-around. That was via Wally World, which seemed to be the only place that had it. I'm in metro Denver, btw.
 

TiGeo

$50 site donor 2022
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,721
Location
Richmond, VA area
If you drive your vehicle regularly, there isn't going to be an issue with the "falling out of suspension boogie man" often discussed here and even then, it should be re-mixed upon driving. Plenty of folks use without drama.
 
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
4,993
Location
The land of USA-made Subies!
If you drive your vehicle regularly, there isn't going to be an issue with the "falling out of suspension boogie man" often discussed here and even then, it should be re-mixed upon driving. Plenty of folks use without drama.
Define “regularly”? Is it every week? Every day?

An additive “should” be remixed during driving (or never come out of suspension in the first place) but there are certainly additives that will never remain in suspension, and Ceratec could certainly be mixed with incompatible oils.

Your last one is funniest, though: I think even you have argued that “plenty of people use it without drama” does not constitute data in any sense of the word. Even additives like Lucas Oil Stabilizer run in oil doing absolutely nothing (even negative things) but watering down the engine oil.

If Ceratec was capable of its claims, either car manufacturers would require it for warranty or oil manufacturers would include it to distance themselves from competitors.
 

TiGeo

$50 site donor 2022
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,721
Location
Richmond, VA area
Define “regularly”? Is it every week? Every day?

An additive “should” be remixed during driving (or never come out of suspension in the first place) but there are certainly additives that will never remain in suspension, and Ceratec could certainly be mixed with incompatible oils.

Your last one is funniest, though: I think even you have argued that “plenty of people use it without drama” does not constitute data in any sense of the word. Even additives like Lucas Oil Stabilizer run in oil doing absolutely nothing (even negative things) but watering down the engine oil.

If Ceratec was capable of its claims, either car manufacturers would require it for warranty or oil manufacturers would include it to distance themselves from competitors.
My point was simply that when things f things up in the car world, the online community will typically show it. Crickets. All the kids run the heavily marketed LM additives in their VWs and you never hear about any bad things happening on the interwebz. The only time I've heard drama with it is here, with a single user that used it in an air compressor I believe; he also used MoS2 in a car that sat, drove it a short distance, then dropped the pan and saw that there was solid material in the pan. What's more scientific? To say it's a crap b/c of a single user's observations using it in a non-auto or the crickets (also an observation by someone that spends WAY too much time in that world) on in the online VW-a-verse. You are correct however in that many things "work fine" but may not add any value as you point out like the Lucas. The old "if XYZ was so great the auto companies would use it" - could go for litterally anything in the non-OE/aftermarket. Many of us try (at least a lot of folks I know) to make our cars better through mods, power adders, etc. and this is no different, a friction modifier that *could* reduce friction. One can also say the same about oil...why use anything beyond the cheapest base-spec oil the manufacturer recommends? If you use anything above it, how do you actually know it's doing a thing different? You don't.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
5,068
Location
Kansas
How long does it take for Ceratec to fall out of suspension?
Well I was thinking that it took 200 miles give or take for it to plate. I presume a lot of people would do an oil change on the weekend before maybe going out of town. For me a trip from Manhattan Kansas to Kansas City Kansas who would get me pretty close. I'm going to guess a few weeks maybe longer I don't think anyone's for certain. I think you're only shaking the bottle when you first add it but after that and the plating you shouldn't have too much trouble with it. We made shake and bake potatoes last night. I may not eat all of it for a couple days; do I need to worry about what we added falling out of suspension?
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
37,372
Location
NY
My point was simply that when things f things up in the car world, the online community will typically show it. Crickets. All the kids run the heavily marketed LM additives in their VWs and you never hear about any bad things happening on the interwebz. The only time I've heard drama with it is here, with a single user that used it in an air compressor I believe; he also used MoS2 in a car that sat, drove it a short distance, then dropped the pan and saw that there was solid material in the pan. What's more scientific? To say it's a crap b/c of a single user's observations using it in a non-auto or the crickets (also an observation by someone that spends WAY too much time in that world) on in the online VW-a-verse. You are correct however in that many things "work fine" but may not add any value as you point out like the Lucas. The old "if XYZ was so great the auto companies would use it" - could go for litterally anything in the non-OE/aftermarket. Many of us try (at least a lot of folks I know) to make our cars better through mods, power adders, etc. and this is no different, a friction modifier that *could* reduce friction. One can also say the same about oil...why use anything beyond the cheapest base-spec oil the manufacturer recommends? If you use anything above it, how do you actually know it's doing a thing different? You don't.
There are more people with similar complaints than just @Trav. With his experience, knowledge, and expertise in the automotive world I'd trust what he says over all the "kids" you mentioned running LM additives. My bet is they don't know very much and buy into hype, which is what most inexperienced know it all "kids" do. ;)
 
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
4,993
Location
The land of USA-made Subies!
There are more people with similar complaints than just @Trav. With his experience, knowledge, and expertise in the automotive world I'd trust what he says over all the "kids" you mentioned running LM additives. My bet is they don't know very much and buy into hype, which is what most inexperienced know it all "kids" do. ;)
I’d love to hear @MolaKule’s input on Ceratec. I’m going to hazard a safe guess that his expert knowledge would reinforce Trav & others’ experiences. Spend the money on a fully-formulated, certified for the application oil, and run it straight for whatever OCI your application determines. The end, your engine will outlive the car.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
28,919
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
My point was simply that when things f things up in the car world, the online community will typically show it. Crickets. All the kids run the heavily marketed LM additives in their VWs and you never hear about any bad things happening on the interwebz. The only time I've heard drama with it is here, with a single user that used it in an air compressor I believe; he also used MoS2 in a car that sat, drove it a short distance, then dropped the pan and saw that there was solid material in the pan. What's more scientific? To say it's a crap b/c of a single user's observations using it in a non-auto or the crickets (also an observation by someone that spends WAY too much time in that world) on in the online VW-a-verse. You are correct however in that many things "work fine" but may not add any value as you point out like the Lucas. The old "if XYZ was so great the auto companies would use it" - could go for litterally anything in the non-OE/aftermarket. Many of us try (at least a lot of folks I know) to make our cars better through mods, power adders, etc. and this is no different, a friction modifier that *could* reduce friction. One can also say the same about oil...why use anything beyond the cheapest base-spec oil the manufacturer recommends? If you use anything above it, how do you actually know it's doing a thing different? You don't.
JHZR2 IIRC had issues with Ceratec coagulating in parts of the engine also. There is no difference in an air compressor with full flow lubrication and oil filter vs an ICE other than the combustion cycle.
If these products really worked as claimed the manufacturers could see a lot to their own benefit and would approve their use but they do not.
I recently pulled a 2.0 AEG apart with 202,000 miles on it that had only been run 22 years on xw40 VW 502 spec oil with no extra additives, the bores, rods and pistons were in nice shape and the bearings were still in spec, the cam was within spec, the only issues were a leaking HG and valve seat erosion neither is effected by lubrication.
Maintaining the engine with the correct oil changed at the correct interval is all today's engines need to live 200K and more.
 

TiGeo

$50 site donor 2022
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,721
Location
Richmond, VA area
JHZR2 IIRC had issues with Ceratec coagulating in parts of the engine also. There is no difference in an air compressor with full flow lubrication and oil filter vs an ICE other than the combustion cycle.
If these products really worked as claimed the manufacturers could see a lot to their own benefit and would approve their use but they do not.
I recently pulled a 2.0 AEG apart with 202,000 miles on it that had only been run 22 years on xw40 VW 502 spec oil with no extra additives, the bores, rods and pistons were in nice shape and the bearings were still in spec, the cam was within spec, the only issues were a leaking HG and valve seat erosion neither is effected by lubrication.
Maintaining the engine with the correct oil changed at the correct interval is all today's engines need to live 200K and more.
Of course. I ran a 2.0 AEG in my MK4 Jetta bought new to 220K sold it and the next owner ran it to 300K. 10K M1 0W40 changes and "normal" use - I'm sure that engine was clean inside. Manufacturers keep things simple and as such, don't recommend additives, K&N air filters, or really anything "extra" b/c your average owner with @#$# it up. This in itself, the lack of manufacturer recommendation, doesn't mean "extras" can't help depending on your use.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
5,068
Location
Kansas
I’d love to hear @MolaKule’s input on Ceratec. I’m going to hazard a safe guess that his expert knowledge would reinforce Trav & others’ experiences. Spend the money on a fully-formulated, certified for the application oil, and run it straight for whatever OCI your application determines. The end, your engine will outlive the car.
Liquimoly Ceratec in my old R18. Never had a issue. I think they would put it in everyday motor oil and I believe Miller's has an oil that has it already in it. It never gave me any problems. But, I did drive my car everyday. Any product whether it be Pennzoil or MOS2 must've did something positive for these products wouldn't still be in existence. I used a lot of archoil in between the ceratec and still had no issues. My biggest gripe with the arch oil was if you consumed any oil you had to add the additive in accordingly to keep up with what you had lost. The Catalytic converter finally crapped out at 290000 miles. The only thing that ever perplexed me was when I called customer service they were fairly adamant about using an oil flush every time. I'm guessing that's for people who use this product or other products they make who didn't drive enough every day that they were worried about the issues that people are presenting as problems when they use the product. I was told if I was going to a racetrack that if I didn't have time to allow it the two or three hundred miles to plate that MOS 2 would take an effect quicker. Right now I'm using a 5W-30 synthetic that was just cleaned up by the high performance lubricants engine cleaner 30 and it's currently at the dealership getting it's 200,000 mi service. I have asked the service manager and the master technician if they could to take pictures so that I can see what has been the result of what I did. I will share all those pictures with everyone. What's good for the goose may not be good for the gander. I would just like to see everybody get along and quit the petty bickering. This forum is about sharing our own personal experiences with what works. If we keep trashing each other and trying to belittle each other we won't have a forum left is everybody will leave and walk away. I'm not here to argue and I hope everybody else can keep an open mind and if you're bothered by something either way then step back or let bygones be bygones and just roll with the flow. I myself am guilty of doing that to some people on here and for that I apologize.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20210520_141700.jpg
    IMG_20210520_141700.jpg
    87.2 KB · Views: 21
  • IMG_20210520_141655.jpg
    IMG_20210520_141655.jpg
    116.7 KB · Views: 23
  • IMG_20210520_141713.jpg
    IMG_20210520_141713.jpg
    101.9 KB · Views: 22
  • IMG_20210520_141651.jpg
    IMG_20210520_141651.jpg
    94.1 KB · Views: 22
  • IMG_20210520_141607.jpg
    IMG_20210520_141607.jpg
    42.2 KB · Views: 20
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
5,068
Location
Kansas
More problems are going to arrive then just not driving your vehicles that much caused by ceratec. Stale fuel and coked up oil rings come to mind. The hardest thing on a vehicle is letting it sit. Not driving it enough to get it up to normal operating temperature which probably consists of at least 20 to 30 miles if not more. I watch the youtube video once with the CEO of redline oil and Cameron pointed out that the perfect ideal temperature somewhere between 220 and 240 or 250°. A lot of people don't get there. We had a guy on this forum with a newer Honda Civic up in Wisconsin that was putting 0w-40 in the Civic to fight fuel dilution. I think his problem was more not driving in enough to get it up to temperature thus having a whole lot of fuel dilution issues. We've watched forums and listen to YouTube demonstrators like project farm when he tried out the ceramic additive. It was interesting to say but I was smart enough to know that it ain't going to just start working within a 10 minute video.
 
Top