Ceiling Install Advice

[JHZR2]

OK, first off, lets get past the silly 'humor' and avoid the comments that "this is Bob is the OIL guy, not Bob is the CEILING guy"... This site has the best set of diversified knowledge on the web...

So, my house has an original enclosed porch... its a late 1920s home. Though it was originally clapboard on the outside, either originally or sometime after, stucco was put on top of rough plaster on the porch walls and ceiling. The stucco on the ceiling is showing cracks and a tad bit of sag in a lot of places. We'd like to install two ceiling fans on the porch anyway, so new boxes need to be put in, so some work will be required no matter what.

A lot of my family live in homes of similar age. I grew up in one. And, I know one thing... most of these houses, in fact, all of them, have porch ceilings that are tongue and groove, stained dark, and shellaced (sp?).

I intend on doing this on mine. So, I need to install tongue and groove as a ceiling. Home Depot sells it in 8' sections (perfect) in pine and oak.

Now, my experience is limited to installing sheetrock ceilings over plaster in my parents' and grandparents' homes. We figure out where the joists are, mark them along their whole length with chalk string, then hold up sheetrock and screw it in along those lines.

But this is a more complex problem... so, should I remove the stucco down to the lathing underneath? If so, I now there will be issues when I get to the plaster corners where the ceiling meets the walls.

If I don't do this, do I want to 'reinforce' the stucco underneath with paster washers or at least some strategically placed drywall screws?

When putting up the tongue and groove, it would look funny to use screws. That isnt how it was installed on the original ceilings in the other homes. Will I want to screw up a series of 1"x8' wood onto the ceiling, for which to nail the tongue and groove into with smaller nails?

Any suggestions or reccomendations of how to perform this install would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the help!

JMH

 

[Bret Chase]

I would strap out the ceiling with 1X3 pine strapping 12"-16" OC (screwed), then hand nail (8d galv finish) the T&G to the strapping. obviously run the strapping 90deg to the way you want to run the finish pine. Nail the boards through the tongue at an angle so the next board will cover the nail head. you'll also want to shellac the wood on all sides to keep them from buckling caused by moisture being picked up be the backside and swelling.

or if you're a true glutton for punishment, pull down the stucco and the plaster. the strapping should be able to stabilize the stucco/plaster so it won't go anywhere.

 

[JHZR2]

Excellent, thanks so much!

I certainly would not have finished both sides (at least not shellac'ed both sides) without your insight.

One other question, surely a stupid one... I know, given your advice, that I ought to shellac the ends as well, for the same moisture reasons. That said, I assume the smart decision is to cut the pieces first, prior to finishing them, right? It seems that it would just be much easier this way.

Thanks again!!!

 

[michaelc80]

Pull that old plaster/stucco off there. By the time you add the weight of the plaster/stucco to the weight of the new ceiling you may be headed for long term problems unless you have the structure in place to support all the weight of the layers of ceiling.

And yes, pre-prime the backs and sides of the boards. Just don't put it into the tongue or on the groove of the new boards or they'll be a nightmare to fit together.

 

[JHZR2]

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And yes, pre-prime the backs and sides of the boards. Just don't put it into the tongue or on the groove of the new boards or they'll be a nightmare to fit together.

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So I assume this means that I should just stain, as opposed to stain and shellac the tongue/grooves, so that they have some coating, but not a 'layer', right? Stain should provide some protection given the porosity of the wood, without making it thicker, right?

At that point, would I be best of to re-shellac the whole thing once its installed on the ceiling?

Thanks!

JMH

 

[Win]

I had a tongue and groove ceiling installed in the entryway and several of my offices in the old building I just got through renovating. The building is 150 years old or so, and I wanted that authentic look in it. It was not Home Depot type material, but I imagine installation is similar.

The carpenters built a perimeter frame of 2 x 4, and had a grid of 2 x 4's within that frame. Your ceiling will not look any better than the quality of the supporting frame, so workmanship here is critical. The individual ceiling boards are angle nailed to the frame with special nails, that are hidden by the next board in the installation. If your ceiling is smaller than the length of the boards, it might not be too tough to put up as a DIY project. If otherwise, because the boards (mine, at least) have a finshed end, getting the board lengths right so the ceiling has the right "look" would be tough as a DIY project. It looked to be very tedious work with a lot of careful attention to detail required. The home center stuff may not have the finished ends or may have other means of dealing with this to ease the job.

The wood was primed after it had been cut and before it was put up, and then painted the finish color. The material used in my building has zero tolerance for water even after being primed - if you get any water on the back of it, it will be ruined within hours. I know this the hard way. For that reason, if it were me, I would remove all of the old material before putting in the new frame to make sure it was watertight above the new ceiling.

Hopefully, you do not have asbestos or any other expensive issues with the old material. I learned a bit about that, as well.

 

[eljefino]

I'd be sure to use glued nails (like a nail-gun shoots) to handle the duress the wood will inflict as it expands and contracts with the more extreme weather/humidity. Or is there a way to hang it "loose" so this is less of an issue? Maybe don't jam the tongues as completely into the grooves as you might be able to.

 

[Bret Chase]

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One other question, surely a stupid one... I know, given your advice, that I ought to shellac the ends as well, for the same moisture reasons. That said, I assume the smart decision is to cut the pieces first, prior to finishing them, right? It seems that it would just be much easier this way.

Thanks again!!!

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shellac them all the way around, even on the tongue & grooves (just don't go crazy on the T&G.) you want the wood to be cut first so you don't have to worry about about scratching up the finish.

another finish option is spar urethane, it's more durable than shellac, and you don't have to put on quite so many coats.

here is a pic of a canopy I made last year. the deck is spruce 2X6 T&G and the purlins are fir. it got 3 coats of Spar urethane and a shingled roof.

here's a pic that shows you the gloss of the decking:

and here are the finished pics.

 

[Bret Chase]

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Hopefully, you do not have asbestos or any other expensive issues with the old material. I learned a bit about that, as well.

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this is a big part of why I said just strap it and go... sometimes you're better off just burying stuff that can become EXTREMELY expensive once exposed. the best thing to do w/ asbestos is to let sleeping dogs lie. besides, the pine ceiling isn't that heavy and if your ceiling structure is sound, they're won't be a problem.