I need help wiring 2 new switches (one for the fan and one for the fan light) to a newly installed ceiling fan. I live in a older home where the lines are copper but are not color coded. I have a black, white and blue wire (for the light control) coming out of the fan as well as the green grounding wire. How do I attach the wires to the two switches and the ceiling fan? Since the wires from my house are not color-coded, what are the consequences if "hot" wire is connected to the wrong wire coming out of the fan?
Ceiling fan wiring help
- Thread starter ryansride2017
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JHZR2
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So you have three identical wires, all copper and nothing else?
It seems to me that first you need a box where you can convert that one main power input to the two different switches (unless its an integrated dual switch), then the wiring out to the leads on the fan.
It seems to me that first you need to carefully utilize a multimeter to determine which is positive and which is negative. Be VERY careful, and keep one hand in a pocket... probably what Id do if I didnt know which main wire is which, is buy a cheap plug, put one wire into the positive, one to the negative, and see which way you need to put multimeter leads into the plug to get a positive 110V.
JMH
It seems to me that first you need a box where you can convert that one main power input to the two different switches (unless its an integrated dual switch), then the wiring out to the leads on the fan.
It seems to me that first you need to carefully utilize a multimeter to determine which is positive and which is negative. Be VERY careful, and keep one hand in a pocket... probably what Id do if I didnt know which main wire is which, is buy a cheap plug, put one wire into the positive, one to the negative, and see which way you need to put multimeter leads into the plug to get a positive 110V.
JMH
We're talking about AC here, so the terms are hot and neutral.
I'd suggest a $1 neon test light instead of a multimeter.
Between any live hot wire and ground (the metal box is grounded or should be), the test light will glow.
How many wires do you have coming out of the wall, at both the switch and fan boxes? Did you run new wire between the wall switches and the fan or is this existing wire?
Are these wires bare or cloth covered? If they're bare you have a problem. Older homes often have brittle insulation on the wires and you may have broken it all off.
I'd suggest a $1 neon test light instead of a multimeter.
Between any live hot wire and ground (the metal box is grounded or should be), the test light will glow.
How many wires do you have coming out of the wall, at both the switch and fan boxes? Did you run new wire between the wall switches and the fan or is this existing wire?
Are these wires bare or cloth covered? If they're bare you have a problem. Older homes often have brittle insulation on the wires and you may have broken it all off.
I have 2 cloth covered, copper wires coming out of the wall that use to be connected to a light. I want to install a blue plastic box with two switches and I will also run wires up to the ceiling fan. The ceiling fan has a black, white, blue and green wires. The blue is for the light control and the green is of course the ground.
I need to know the following:
1. What is the wiring order that would allow
me to have two separate switches working
the fan and fan light?
2. How do I handle the two clothed copper wires
that are not color coded when I connect
them to the black and white wires from the
fan?
It was all so much easier when I lived in a newer home!!
I need to know the following:
1. What is the wiring order that would allow
me to have two separate switches working
the fan and fan light?
2. How do I handle the two clothed copper wires
that are not color coded when I connect
them to the black and white wires from the
fan?
It was all so much easier when I lived in a newer home!!
What you need is voltage detector. I came across the niftiest gadget for trouble shooting, a voltage detector. They work through the insulation of wires. There are several brands. I have a GB Instruments GVD-505A, less than $15 at Home Depot. Touch it to a hot wire, and the end glows red. Find the doodad that lights it on one side, and not the other, and you have the culprit. You do not have to open up housings and expose electrical contacts. You are looking at where your hand is, not where the meter is. The tip will light when the power is on and you touch it to one of the wires, but not the other. Label that one hot, and the other neutral.
Buy enough 14-3 with ground to run from the box in the wall to the ceiling fan. Connect hot wire to one terminal of both switches. Connect the red and black wires each to one of the others. Connect the neutral to the white wire. At the ceiling fan, connect black to black, red to blue, ground to green, and white to white.
Buy enough 14-3 with ground to run from the box in the wall to the ceiling fan. Connect hot wire to one terminal of both switches. Connect the red and black wires each to one of the others. Connect the neutral to the white wire. At the ceiling fan, connect black to black, red to blue, ground to green, and white to white.
So are you installing a fan-rated box in the ceiling? You need to to meet code. Can't just hook up to an old light box unmodified.
Also sounds like you need to string a second wire, you don't have enough conductors between the wall switch/speed controller and ceiling box.
Furthermore, it sounds like currently the "always hot" wiring leads to your light switch then the light only gets a switched feed that dead-ends there. It's one way of wiring, neither right nor wrong but what was convenient at the time.
The other way is to have the always-hot romex enter the box, the black (hot) feed is connected to a white wire (sometimes with black electric tape loop for marking purposes) that goes off to teh switch, then the switched power comes back on the black wire in that same jacket and powers the light. You'd know you had this by a bunch more wires in the ceiling box.
Also sounds like you need to string a second wire, you don't have enough conductors between the wall switch/speed controller and ceiling box.
Furthermore, it sounds like currently the "always hot" wiring leads to your light switch then the light only gets a switched feed that dead-ends there. It's one way of wiring, neither right nor wrong but what was convenient at the time.
The other way is to have the always-hot romex enter the box, the black (hot) feed is connected to a white wire (sometimes with black electric tape loop for marking purposes) that goes off to teh switch, then the switched power comes back on the black wire in that same jacket and powers the light. You'd know you had this by a bunch more wires in the ceiling box.
"Connect hot wire to one terminal of both switches. Connect the red and black wires each to one of the others.'
So it doesn't matter what terminal on the switch that I connect the hot to?
So it doesn't matter what terminal on the switch that I connect the hot to?
If it's a standard switch (as opposed to a 3 way) it won't matter. Just make sure to ground it with the green terminal.
generally speaking swapping the neutral and hot is unsafe. since the neutral is always connected, sometimes bits of the device will be energized when you might expect it not be so. also, the hot side path is better protected. for instance, a lamp generally make the screw threads neutral and the tip hot. if you happen to be touching the screw threads when inserting the bulb in an energized lamp this setup is quite a bit safer.
disconnected your untagged wires. put some wire nuts on the ends. turn on the switch. remove one wire nut and measure the voltage between a ground (you might need to use a nearby outlet) and the wire. the hot side will read 120V. the neutral will read 0V (or very close). look closely at the wires. sometimes they box appear the same color because 40+ years of rubber splicing tape has discolored the first couple inches of the jacket.
i suspect your fabric covered wires are armored cable (often called bx--it is metal sheathed). if this is the case, this is the source of your ground. using a plastic box is a bad idea. you should use a metal box and the appropriate cable clamp so that the box is grounded (and you can then connect your fan ground to the box).
disconnected your untagged wires. put some wire nuts on the ends. turn on the switch. remove one wire nut and measure the voltage between a ground (you might need to use a nearby outlet) and the wire. the hot side will read 120V. the neutral will read 0V (or very close). look closely at the wires. sometimes they box appear the same color because 40+ years of rubber splicing tape has discolored the first couple inches of the jacket.
i suspect your fabric covered wires are armored cable (often called bx--it is metal sheathed). if this is the case, this is the source of your ground. using a plastic box is a bad idea. you should use a metal box and the appropriate cable clamp so that the box is grounded (and you can then connect your fan ground to the box).
Right, 3 screws, incoming hot, switched hot and ground painted green.
How old is this place? Most of the cloth covered wire I have seen was knob and tube. If so, there is no ground available. That is also true in some of the the stuff build maybe in the 50's with non metallic cable without ground. Even if you don't have a ground, I would still connect all the bare and green wires and to the green screws. That way if you ever do update, everything is connected from the switches on.
It is true you can identify the hot and neutral with a meter or test light and another ground somewhere, but the voltage detector is so much easier, and so useful if you plan to do much electrical, it is a great investment. Of course if the whole house is wired the same way, you have a chicken or the egg problem of identifing the hot and neutral at an outlet. They may not have followed modern conventions.
It's unknown how old the house actually is. Perhaps back in the 30's when coal was huge in Northeastern PA. As you said I don't think the wiring includes a ground. It was suggested earlier that Home Depot sells a product that illuminates when exposed to the "live" wire. I'm going to visit there today and see if I can find one as that would help. I already have a voltmeter but since it looks like no ground is available to test it, it's not much use. Thanks for all the help.
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