Caution UOA - PP 10W30 6881m on 2001 Jeep 4.0

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This reman engine now has about 75K on it. The filter that was in place was a MicroGreen. Unsure what to say about the filter and its abilities. NAPA testing marked this as "CAUTION".

Html:


Test# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Mileage 9622 5184 5606 5334 5679 6985 8195 6881

Iron 146 43 26 28 55 50 84 75

Chrom 4 1 1 1 1 1 4 2

Nickel 1 0 0 0 0 0
Alum 4 1 1 1 2 3 10 8

Copper 23 12 16 20 24 17 26 22

Lead 15 8 4 3 47 31 16 56

Tin 2 1 1 1 2 2 2 4

Cadmi 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silv 0 0 0 0 0 0
Vanad 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 25 12 13 8 12 13 27 19

Sodiu 18 6 6 9 15 10 19 86

Potas 6 1 5 0 0 3 7 1

Titan 0 1 0 0 0 0
Moly 61 58 67 62 61 46 59 58

Antim 1 0 0 1 0 1

Mang 2 0 0 0 0 0

Lith 0 0 0 0 0 0

Boron 280 163 30 21 23 8 212 30

Magn 14 14 892 1041 1049 207 65 27

Calc 3611 2651 1008 814 737 2170 2928 2660

Bari 0 0 0 0 0 0
Phos 772 723 868 942 921 721 730 750

Zinc 923 864 1103 1189 1143 897 914 871

Fuel
Soot
Water
V@100C 11.1 10.2 12.9 13.3 13.5 10.9 10.2 9.9

TBN 3.4 4.47 4.22 NES 4.13 3.49 3.0 3.4

Oxi 20 25 17 NES 30 18

Nit 16 12 13 NES 14 13



(first to last) (all tests done by Polaris unless otherwise noted)

Test#1 PU

Test#2 PU

Test#3 T6

Test#4 T6

Test#5 T6

Test#6 PP

Test#7 PP (test done by NAPA)


I assume its still a situation where a bearing is going south.
 
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Hard to say what's going on without a consistent trend. The sudden jump in lead over one OCI could be a "scar" event where a piece of grit passed through a bearing and pumped out a pulse of lead wear, which could easily subside again over time. I wouldn't ever pull an engine from service based on UOAs unless there were corroborating evidence- dropping oil pressure, bearing knock, etc.

You know my solution for Jeep 4.0s... Rotella T6 and an Ultra or RoyalPurple filter makes 'em last forever.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
You know my solution for Jeep 4.0s... Rotella T6 and an Ultra or RoyalPurple filter makes 'em last forever.


What have you observed with T6 that makes it superior?
What size filter do you run?
 
i use the XG8A ultra and t6 5-40 winter and on my reman i used 15-40 for break in. 30 mins at 2500.. 15-40 for 1000mi. and now t6 for 5000 on this oci. will likley use 15-40 next OC and an XG8A 6.5qts

* i used purolator p30001 for break in and 1000mi run. but tearing talk. i went and got an ultra XG8A fwiw.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Hard to say what's going on without a consistent trend. The sudden jump in lead over one OCI could be a "scar" event where a piece of grit passed through a bearing and pumped out a pulse of lead wear, which could easily subside again over time. I wouldn't ever pull an engine from service based on UOAs unless there were corroborating evidence- dropping oil pressure, bearing knock, etc.

You know my solution for Jeep 4.0s... Rotella T6 and an Ultra or RoyalPurple filter makes 'em last forever.



Look back a couple of oil changes, the lead has been high in the past.
 
One knowledgeable person told me that in a straight 6 you need to have the crank better balanced than a 4 cyl or V8 due to its physical long length.

I am thinking that the engine was just not reman as well as it could/should have been.
 
It's hard to tell what is going on here. In #7 it seems the aluminum tripled compared to the other UOAs, and the Lead seems to be increasing.

I've run T6, M1, and PP in my Jeep. All of them seemed pretty noisy, and with the T6 my oil pressure seemed to be sky high all the time. Not saying this had any negative effects on the engine, but I'm wondering how this engine would respond to a conventional.

Both me and KCJeep have had excellent UOAs with PYB in our 4.0s with low aluminum and iron wear. It might be worth a shot to do a ~4000 mile OCI with PYB and see how it looks.

Here are a few PYB 4.0 UOAs:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2943687

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3256885/Jeep_4.0_PYB_10w30_UOA

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3600263/Jeep_4.0L_-_PYB_10w-30_(first_
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
This reman engine now has about 75K on it. The filter that was in place was a MicroGreen. Unsure what to say about the filter and its abilities. NAPA testing marked this as "CAUTION".

Html:


Test# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Mileage 9622 5184 5606 5334 5679 6985 8195 6881

Iron 146 43 26 28 55 50 84 75

Chrom 4 1 1 1 1 1 4 2

Nickel 1 0 0 0 0 0
Alum 4 1 1 1 2 3 10 8

Copper 23 12 16 20 24 17 26 22

Lead 15 8 4 3 47 31 16 56

Tin 2 1 1 1 2 2 2 4

Cadmi 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silv 0 0 0 0 0 0
Vanad 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 25 12 13 8 12 13 27 19

Sodiu 18 6 6 9 15 10 19 86

Potas 6 1 5 0 0 3 7 1

Titan 0 1 0 0 0 0
Moly 61 58 67 62 61 46 59 58

Antim 1 0 0 1 0 1

Mang 2 0 0 0 0 0

Lith 0 0 0 0 0 0

Boron 280 163 30 21 23 8 212 30

Magn 14 14 892 1041 1049 207 65 27

Calc 3611 2651 1008 814 737 2170 2928 2660

Bari 0 0 0 0 0 0
Phos 772 723 868 942 921 721 730 750

Zinc 923 864 1103 1189 1143 897 914 871

Fuel
Soot
Water
V@100C 11.1 10.2 12.9 13.3 13.5 10.9 10.2 9.9

TBN 3.4 4.47 4.22 NES 4.13 3.49 3.0 3.4

Oxi 20 25 17 NES 30 18

Nit 16 12 13 NES 14 13



(first to last) (all tests done by Polaris unless otherwise noted)

Test#1 PU

Test#2 PU

Test#3 T6

Test#4 T6

Test#5 T6

Test#6 PP

Test#7 PP (test done by NAPA)


I assume its still a situation where a bearing is going south.


It's kind of all over - but since this is the first set of UOAs on a reman 4.0 and low miles, it could be the 4.0 breakin routine. Or it could be a bearing.

Either way, I'd be using the T6 and whatever oil filter you used in samples 3 and 4, compare apples to apples for a couple OCIs.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Donald
This reman engine now has about 75K on it. The filter that was in place was a MicroGreen. Unsure what to say about the filter and its abilities. NAPA testing marked this as "CAUTION".

Html:


Test# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Mileage 9622 5184 5606 5334 5679 6985 8195 6881

Iron 146 43 26 28 55 50 84 75

Chrom 4 1 1 1 1 1 4 2

Nickel 1 0 0 0 0 0
Alum 4 1 1 1 2 3 10 8

Copper 23 12 16 20 24 17 26 22

Lead 15 8 4 3 47 31 16 56

Tin 2 1 1 1 2 2 2 4

Cadmi 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silv 0 0 0 0 0 0
Vanad 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 25 12 13 8 12 13 27 19

Sodiu 18 6 6 9 15 10 19 86

Potas 6 1 5 0 0 3 7 1

Titan 0 1 0 0 0 0
Moly 61 58 67 62 61 46 59 58

Antim 1 0 0 1 0 1

Mang 2 0 0 0 0 0

Lith 0 0 0 0 0 0

Boron 280 163 30 21 23 8 212 30

Magn 14 14 892 1041 1049 207 65 27

Calc 3611 2651 1008 814 737 2170 2928 2660

Bari 0 0 0 0 0 0
Phos 772 723 868 942 921 721 730 750

Zinc 923 864 1103 1189 1143 897 914 871

Fuel
Soot
Water
V@100C 11.1 10.2 12.9 13.3 13.5 10.9 10.2 9.9

TBN 3.4 4.47 4.22 NES 4.13 3.49 3.0 3.4

Oxi 20 25 17 NES 30 18

Nit 16 12 13 NES 14 13



(first to last) (all tests done by Polaris unless otherwise noted)

Test#1 PU

Test#2 PU

Test#3 T6

Test#4 T6

Test#5 T6

Test#6 PP

Test#7 PP (test done by NAPA)


I assume its still a situation where a bearing is going south.


It's kind of all over - but since this is the first set of UOAs on a reman 4.0 and low miles, it could be the 4.0 breakin routine. Or it could be a bearing.

Either way, I'd be using the T6 and whatever oil filter you used in samples 3 and 4, compare apples to apples for a couple OCIs.


Your reading it wrong. I did not start any UOAs until it had about 20K miles on the reman engine. Now it has 75K or so. The mileage listed is for that particular OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Hard to say what's going on without a consistent trend. The sudden jump in lead over one OCI could be a "scar" event where a piece of grit passed through a bearing and pumped out a pulse of lead wear, which could easily subside again over time. I wouldn't ever pull an engine from service based on UOAs unless there were corroborating evidence- dropping oil pressure, bearing knock, etc.

You know my solution for Jeep 4.0s... Rotella T6 and an Ultra or RoyalPurple filter makes 'em last forever.


Agree with the no alarm until drop in OP or knock evidence. When it reaches that point, throw some bearings in it. I have no clue what oil will make it better, but thicker might make it last longer - so maybe a 5W,10W,15W-40 might be worth a try. It's possible there was dirt in the reman and you have a persistent particle streak - it may live another 100k like that - worry about it when it gets noisy or loses pressure.
 
Donald, any chance there's a coolant leak? Sodium is very high on your most recent sample, and might be high on some previous samples (depending on the VOAs for each of those oils). It's hard to say what might be going on, if anything. Other than tearing the motor down I don't think there's a way to diagnose the potential problem. If you do ever discover a problem, or if you ever open this engine up, I would love to know what you find and to see pics of the good and bad.
 
Originally Posted By: nicrfe1370
Donald, any chance there's a coolant leak? Sodium is very high on your most recent sample, and might be high on some previous samples (depending on the VOAs for each of those oils). It's hard to say what might be going on, if anything. Other than tearing the motor down I don't think there's a way to diagnose the potential problem. If you do ever discover a problem, or if you ever open this engine up, I would love to know what you find and to see pics of the good and bad.


The UOAs say "NO" for coolant so I have to think there is no coolant leak.
 
That is quite a spike. Hard to tell with this engine it has had fairly high "wear" numbers for a long time.

I personally just don't think the Jeep 4.0 is all that great a match for the fancy syns you favor. I too would love to see what happens if you would run a couple of PYB or Pennzoil HM 5k OCI's. Then again with that spike who knows what to expect.
 
The 4.0's have a reputation for not responding well to certain 30wt oils. Though it's always with high iron, not lead. I'd guess you got so-so rebuild.
 
Could the main bearings be replaced by dropping the oil pan or does the engine need to be pulled. Or maybe the issue is probably with the crankshaft and new bearing would just have the same thing happen again.

The rod bearings could be replaced by just dropping the oil pan I assume.
 
I know people have suggested their favorite oil for this engine, but test 4 & 5 were both using T6 and there was a lead spike in test 5. So I am not sure any motor oil would have much of an effect on the copper and lead containment issues.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Donald
This reman engine now has about 75K on it. The filter that was in place was a MicroGreen. Unsure what to say about the filter and its abilities. NAPA testing marked this as "CAUTION".

Html:


Test# 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Mileage 9622 5184 5606 5334 5679 6985 8195 6881

Iron 146 43 26 28 55 50 84 75

Chrom 4 1 1 1 1 1 4 2

Nickel 1 0 0 0 0 0
Alum 4 1 1 1 2 3 10 8

Copper 23 12 16 20 24 17 26 22

Lead 15 8 4 3 47 31 16 56

Tin 2 1 1 1 2 2 2 4

Cadmi 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silv 0 0 0 0 0 0
Vanad 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 25 12 13 8 12 13 27 19

Sodiu 18 6 6 9 15 10 19 86

Potas 6 1 5 0 0 3 7 1

Titan 0 1 0 0 0 0
Moly 61 58 67 62 61 46 59 58

Antim 1 0 0 1 0 1

Mang 2 0 0 0 0 0

Lith 0 0 0 0 0 0

Boron 280 163 30 21 23 8 212 30

Magn 14 14 892 1041 1049 207 65 27

Calc 3611 2651 1008 814 737 2170 2928 2660

Bari 0 0 0 0 0 0
Phos 772 723 868 942 921 721 730 750

Zinc 923 864 1103 1189 1143 897 914 871

Fuel
Soot
Water
V@100C 11.1 10.2 12.9 13.3 13.5 10.9 10.2 9.9

TBN 3.4 4.47 4.22 NES 4.13 3.49 3.0 3.4

Oxi 20 25 17 NES 30 18

Nit 16 12 13 NES 14 13



(first to last) (all tests done by Polaris unless otherwise noted)

Test#1 PU

Test#2 PU

Test#3 T6

Test#4 T6

Test#5 T6

Test#6 PP

Test#7 PP (test done by NAPA)


I assume its still a situation where a bearing is going south.


It's kind of all over - but since this is the first set of UOAs on a reman 4.0 and low miles, it could be the 4.0 breakin routine. Or it could be a bearing.

Either way, I'd be using the T6 and whatever oil filter you used in samples 3 and 4, compare apples to apples for a couple OCIs.


You're reading it wrong. I did not start any UOAs until it had about 20K miles on the reman engine. Now it has 75K or so. The mileage listed is for that particular OCI.


Sorry, but I did get that the engine's got 75k on it ....and making a too-subtle comment about the 4.0's longevity in general by saying it's still breaking in.

I'd still go with the T6 and filters from samples 3 and 4, and see what the next couple of UOAs look like. Although the iron looks ok at uppers 20s the lead is definitely a "?". Both were lowest with the T6.
 
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Originally Posted By: Donald
I know people have suggested their favorite oil for this engine, but test 4 & 5 were both using T6 and there was a lead spike in test 5. So I am not sure any motor oil would have much of an effect on the copper and lead containment issues.


Agreed.

I sure wouldn't tear into any engine based on a UOA alone. It may run another 100k like this without the slightest apparent issue.
 
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