Catch Can on the Caravan (250km)

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The contents have been out in the cold and they have turned to a slush but haven't frozen. There is also a gel type consistency for a thin layer of the collection on top of this slush as observed when sloshing it around. It's still out on the back deck to see if it will freeze completely though.
 
Stevie's results replicate my observations. I'm in Ontario, by the Lake (similar ambient temperatures). The stuff from the can never gets frozen. I have slightly different setup in my Tahoe, two sequential catch cans. First is similar to his, the second has a glass jar as the condensing device. I have to clean the second one maybe once a year, just to get rid of the varnish on glass. The first collects quite a bit of condensation.
Will post a picture of my setup soon.
I was always wondering. The original PCV plastic tube is quite thin. My fuel-grade rubber hoses are internally wider, although longer. So, why the water/oil mix would not freeze inside the original tube, while there is a concern of it freezing with the catch can setup? I did random cold-weather checks, the whole thing flows freely, even after coldest nights.
 
Thanks Yugrus, There is a video on Youtube where a guy has a dual setup on his Silverado that seems similar to yours. I'll see if I can find the video.

Good to know yours isn't freezing. I will keep attempting to freeze this bottle of "stuff".
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Good to know yours isn't freezing. I will keep attempting to freeze this bottle of "stuff".

Leave your vehicle outside here Tuesday and Wednesday, and you might get your wish.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by StevieC
Good to know yours isn't freezing. I will keep attempting to freeze this bottle of "stuff".

Leave your vehicle outside here Tuesday and Wednesday, and you might get your wish.
wink.gif


It was -24c the other day and it's going down to -15c tonight... Yes not a Saskatchewan / Alberta winter but pretty darn cold.

I'm collecting this junk for the next year so it will have lots of nights outside in the cold to try and freeze and February is next week.
grin2.gif
 
I'm gonna air this question again. Why there is no concern about stock thin long plastic PCV tube freezing at the lowest temperature observed on this planet? Yet there is a seemingly definite possibility of thicker, larger internal diameter specialty rubber hose freeze at normal winter temperatures for Southern Ontario...
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
It was -24c the other day and it's going down to -15c tonight... Yes not a Saskatchewan / Alberta winter but pretty darn cold.

I saw the weather channel today and you're neck of the woods was worse than here by a significant margin. The only obvious place worse was the territories.
wink.gif
Oh well, I'll be paying for it in a few hours.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Yes, I was watching talk of this in the afternoon today. We are in for a rough night of about -31 C, but no records.
wink.gif


We might break a long standing record they said... LOL
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Is there a chance this concoction can freeze? That would be my concern, but perhaps if there is enough oil and fuel in the mix, it should be fine. ...
A bigger potential issue would be if someone (not Stevie) neglects to empty it too long during cold weather, and a slug of condensed dirty water gets sucked into the engine intake.


I think that makes a case for some sort of float-actuated bypass mechanism that would cut the catch can out of the loop once it hits a certain fill level.

For sure... Mine has a dip-stick and it has graduated markings on it so I can check when I check the oil at a service station.
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EDIT: Picture


So, trying to understand the physics here, this device simply condenses the vapors onto baffles or some other cooler surface?

What percentage of the total vapors actually get condensed?
 
Molkule,

From the playing around I have done with this can for fun this is what I have learned...

1)The can should have some distance from the exit point on the engine and the return back to the engine to let the vapour naturally cool on the way to the can as much as possible.

2)The can seems to condense far more when it's placed in a cooler section under the hood location.

3)If you put some sort of baffling or media in the can like stainless steel wool that allows the incoming vapour to hit more surface area before it exits the can it seems to condense a whole lot more.

4)I did have a see through fuel filter in line after the can before it returned to the engine on the Toyota and it appeared it wasn't catching any additional vapor after the can but it was a short run in terms of mileage and not a full OCI or anything before I traded the vehicle.

I would like to add a see through fuel filter to the Caravan's return line to monitor what vapors it's not condensing which should discolour the filter over time visually but I can't seem to find one in 1/2" readily and I don't really want to reduce it down to 3/8" and then go back up to 1/2" as this might restrict the intended flow that Chrysler was looking for in their PCV system.

I'd be happy to post any pictures of the can's setup further than what I have already if you want to see something in particular.

Reasons for doing it:

Just interested to see how much oily condensation crud I can collect in a 2L pop bottle over the course of a year and continue until I change the plugs at 100K so that I can see if it made any difference to the intake plennum, intake manifold, and intake valves when I have the plennum off for the plug replacement. I know what they typically look like as I looked at my dad's 2012 PentaStar when we changed the plugs in that one twice and while the back side of the valves are "ok clean" because it's PFI, the intake manifold and plennum are heavily coated in engine oil so it would be neat to see the contrast where a can is installed now that I have seen his.

I also want to compare UOA's with the can on and with it off to see if it has any effect on nitration, TAN, Fuel dilution as condensing the blowby might do so ?!?
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
... 1)The can should have some distance from the exit point on the engine and the return back to the engine to let the vapour naturally cool on the way to the can as much as possible. ...
As far as water vapor in the blowby, I'd think the opposite would be true. What's the need to condense out water that would pass harmlessly into the intake, as long as it remains in gaseous form? Therefore, shorter and warmer plumbing would minimize maintenance, need for frequent draining in winter, as well as risk of liquid water choking the engine. I realize that approach might sacrifice some ability to capture oil mist or vapor, which is your main objective.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule


So, trying to understand the physics here, this device simply condenses the vapors onto baffles or some other cooler surface?

What percentage of the total vapors actually get condensed?


That has been my question all along, for every oz it catches how much gets by it and is it really harmful or could the small amount of oil actually be beneficial to valve guide lubrication?
I remember a time when inverse oilers were a popular add on that put oil deliberately into the intake.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by MolaKule


So, trying to understand the physics here, this device simply condenses the vapors onto baffles or some other cooler surface?

What percentage of the total vapors actually get condensed?


That has been my question all along, for every oz it catches how much gets by it and is it really harmful or could the small amount of oil actually be beneficial to valve guide lubrication?
I remember a time when inverse oilers were a popular add on that put oil deliberately into the intake.


I would assume anything making it to the valve guides is negated by the PFI washing the area with it's spray, no?
I would imagine the injector spraying across the valve would have some sort of back washing effect onto the valve guide as well as entering the cylinder just from the velocity of the spray.
 
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Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by StevieC
... 1)The can should have some distance from the exit point on the engine and the return back to the engine to let the vapour naturally cool on the way to the can as much as possible. ...
As far as water vapor in the blowby, I'd think the opposite would be true. What's the need to condense out water that would pass harmlessly into the intake, as long as it remains in gaseous form? Therefore, shorter and warmer plumbing would minimize maintenance, need for frequent draining in winter, as well as risk of liquid water choking the engine. I realize that approach might sacrifice some ability to capture oil mist or vapor, which is your main objective.


Something to play around with for sure. The interesting thing is that I don't seem to collect and more or less condensation on mild days versus extremely cold days like today when you would think there would be more. I wish I could find a 1/2" see through filter that I could put on the cans exit line to see if there is moisture / oily vapour leaving the can or if I did infact catch it all. The hose leaving the can is dry of oil at least whereas without the can it's wet with oil going to the intake tract but it could be the condensation in the exit line is evaporating before I get the hose off to have a look.

More playing is required.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by StevieC


...I also want to compare UOA's with the can on and with it off to see if it has any effect on nitration, TAN, Fuel dilution as condensing the blowby might do so ?!?


It will be interesting see if can be proven that there is a definitive cause and effect relationship with the CC.

I know some racers use catch cans but some also use reduced temp thermostats or none at all.

My only put is that if the thermostat is the proper temp of 'stat then moisture should be cooked off and burned in the combustion chamber, assuming the PCV system is functioning properly.
 
The PCV in the PentaStar is on the camshaft as it's an oil/air separator which doesn't appear to work the greatest, given the amount the can catches that isn't condensation.
Then a short tube from the PCV to the intake tract via the rear head, with a breather tube from the air box to the front head. (in this engine configuration).

I do enough miles that I should be able to capture the info in a short amount of time. I will do a couple of runs with it on and with it off so we can see if there is any trending there.
 
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Ok so it appears that a couple of days in these frigid temperatures (-18c / 0F) is enough to freeze most of the contents in the can. There was a round ring of ice similar to a Hockey Puck at the bottom of the can today when I went to empty it. I

t was preventing me from unscrewing the can until I removed the dipstick which was acting like a lock in the ice not allowing me to turn the can.
I took the dipstick out and then was able to unscrew the can.

So it looks like I'm going to have to end this test for now until I can figure out a spot to mount it that will keep it warm in the engine compartment. Maybe a summer location versus winter location.
The contents in my collection bottle that have been outside as well for the last couple of days finally froze as well.

Not discouraged, just need to modify.
grin2.gif
 
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