catastrophic lubrication failure, mobil 1

[TurboLuver]

Looks to me like a classic case of running boost (likely turned up to high and without a propper tune) on an engine with stock internals that was never designed for boost in the first place.
I've done it myself, expected catastrophic engine failure and blamed no one except myself when it finally happened...

 

[Steve S]

Not the oil ,the filter is not too restrictive. As mentioned look at the color of the rods.

 

[schwartr88]

This is how rumors that an oil is "bad" start. Now we can all add M1 to the list of oils that will destroy your engine.

 

[Brett Miller]

There's no way that was the oils fault. It looks to me like the engine was severly overheated.

 

[Pablo]

friendly_jacek - huh? first you wrote:

Title: catastrophic lubrication failure, mobil 1

quote:

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We rarely hear about lubrication failures (besides neglect and sludge). Here is one:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t84931.html

I was always thinking that mobil 1 was just a light duty engine oil (low HTHS and light additive package) and mobil 1 filters were restrictive.

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Then you drop in:

quote:

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To clarify, I didn't mean that it was Mobil 1 fault but that his choice of mobil 1 oil (and BTW, toyota calls for 5W30 only and 5000/7500 miles intervals) for this kind of driving was not very smart.

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A bit late. To quote a popular GEICO caveman commercial "I'll have the roast duck and mango salsa......next time do your research"

Please keep it factual and choose your words carefully.

 

[LarryL]

The key to the failure is the statement that there was bearing material transfer to the bearing journal. If that happens and the motor is still running, then the problem was a gradual one. The driver had to hear the noise and maybe even feel the vibration, and continued to drive. The rods don't appear to be blue around the big end, but that could just be the quality of the picture. The bearings are flattened a bit and streaked. There was a lot of curd being dragged around the bearing journals, the kind of curd that comes with very dirty old oil. The engine didn't just fail with no warning. The driver of a car like this usually needs ear plugs. When he rebuilds the engine he should get better ear plugs. Mobil 1 oil and the Mobil 1 filter are not the bad guys here.

 

[Kestas]

This is what happens when people reengineer cars without knowing exactly what they're doing.

I worked at Chrysler back in the early 80s. One of the programs back then was to take the stock 2.2L engine and add a turbo to it. I wasn't intimately involved with all the details of this program, but I learned that after testing, and many iterations of testing, the engine group had to modify many parts in the engine to make it acceptable for use.

This guy's out of touch with reality.

 

[1sttruck]

The engine parts shown look pretty dark for a synthetic oil that's been used at common sense oil change intervals, so something else to have been going on.

If the oil filters are too restrictive one would expect to see other cars of the same make with similar problems, as turbos don't increase engine redlines. If someone is running in the red a lot with a stock lower end then 'you gotta pay if you wanna play'.

 

[friendly_jacek]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
friendly_jacek - huh? first you wrote:

Title: catastrophic lubrication failure, mobil 1

quote:

---

We rarely hear about lubrication failures (besides neglect and sludge). Here is one:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t84931.html

I was always thinking that mobil 1 was just a light duty engine oil (low HTHS and light additive package) and mobil 1 filters were restrictive.

---

Then you drop in:

quote:

---

To clarify, I didn't mean that it was Mobil 1 fault but that his choice of mobil 1 oil (and BTW, toyota calls for 5W30 only and 5000/7500 miles intervals) for this kind of driving was not very smart.

---

A bit late. To quote a popular GEICO caveman commercial "I'll have the roast duck and mango salsa......next time do your research"

Please keep it factual and choose your words carefully.

---

Sorry I offended you Pablo.
The BITOG crowd does seem to be tochy-feely.
As for stating if factually, The only fact I provided was the link to the failure post.
The rest were my opinions as I clearly stated.

It's very true that this guy abused the engine. There is no question about it. He also made another mistake: low HTHS oil for this service.
Anyone with a basic knowledge of lubrication history knows that HTHS specs were developed when engines were failing at high speed driving (think autoban) with regular oils.

Pablo, take it easy, its only a discussion forum, LOL.

 

[Brett Miller]

Severe detonation could have been the cause. He was probably running his boosted turbo on the cheapest gas he could find.

 

[Raven18940]

You guys are all jumping on this kid's case, why? Where did he blame the oil? Where did he blame Toyota for his problem? He said he wanted to contact toyota, not warranty his engine. Seems like he's approaching this rationally.

He's a performance enthusiast like myself, we'd rather beat on our cars and enjoy driving than baby them and spend hours trying to figure out the perfect OCI so as not to waste the oil.

 

[Raven18940]

You guys wanna talk about someone blaming Mobil 1 take a look at this.

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/performance/index.html?bID=107017

Where's the proof that M1 to blame? Is there even a UOA? No, but it couldn't be anything else.

 

[BlazerLT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raven18940:
You guys are all jumping on this kid's case, why? Where did he blame the oil? Where did he blame Toyota for his problem? He said he wanted to contact toyota, not warranty his engine. Seems like he's approaching this rationally.

He's a performance enthusiast like myself, we'd rather beat on our cars and enjoy driving than baby them and spend hours trying to figure out the perfect OCI so as not to waste the oil.

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Please actually read the thread where he first mentions the oil and filter he is using before how he hammered his engine with stock internals.

 

[friendly_jacek]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raven18940:
You guys wanna talk about someone blaming Mobil 1 take a look at this.

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/performance/index.html?bID=107017

Where's the proof that M1 to blame? Is there even a UOA? No, but it couldn't be anything else.

---

No proof but interesting reading.
If you read some of the discussion at the bottom it appears that SAAB tuners insist on not using M1 due to numerous failures.
Again, no proof but some food for thoughts.

 

[ITSMR2U]

I'm on an MR 2 Spyder forum, and many members have turboed their cars. Some of the work was responsibly done with reasonable boost pressures and hp in the 200 to 230 range on the Toyota 1ZZ engine. Then there are some that keep raising boost pressure until she blows and wouldn't know a proper fuel/air mixture if they saw it. One of the really good tuners came up with an algorithm of boost pressure vs probable destruction for his (Hass) turbo kit. There are write-ups on the forum from kids who have blown a few engines and still don't have a clue. Turboing a stock engine is a way complex (and risky) business.
In short, this was not an oil problem!!

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlazerLT:
The oil is not the fault here, the owner is the problem.

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Bingo. One idiot + turbo x stock engine = the results shown.

 

[Auto-Union]

The TURBO had nothing to do with it.

 

[LTVibe]

A new forum thread just started at VVT-i.net about 1ZZ-FE rod problems:

quote:

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The weak link in the 1zz is the rods...

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quote:

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that and the rod bearings suck. they break even without F/I.

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quote:

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yeah well, that's because most 1zz's have oil pressure problems...

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[ekpolk]

quote:

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Originally posted by Raven18940:
You guys are all jumping on this kid's case, why? Where did he blame the oil? (...snip...)

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Uhhh, right there in the title of the thread. It is entitled,"catastrophic lubrication failure, mobil1". Now, you could argue that it doesn't say "Mobil 1 Caused a Catastrophic Lube Failure", and that would certainly be true, on its face. On the other hand, I don't think that there's any reasonable interpretation of that title that does not imply culpability on the part of M1. Not a fair title, given what follows, and it's arguably misleading IMO (I'm not saying that was the poster's intent; I don't know what his agenda is, if any).

 

[buster]

Engeering failure by the engineer should be the title.