Castrol Syntec vs. ?

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67
Location
Kissimee, Fla.
This is my first post here, and it sure looks like you guys know your stuff! Anyway, I read a few years ago that Mobil corp. was claiming that Castrol was calling thier Syntec oil 'synthetic', when in Mobil's opinion it was dino. [Cool] And that the gov. says Castrol is allowed to 'stretch' the definition of 'synthetic'. What's the story on this? [ November 30, 2002, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: cobravenom71 ]
 

driven2services

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http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject/fluids/nadcastrol.htm http://www.pecuniary.com/faq/oil-base-stock.html (good info despite the Amsoil slant. Also note that Group I base oils have some advantages over Group II base oils, and to meet current specs for API-SL & ILSAC GF-3, Group II, maybe some Group II+, or Group I mixed with other base oils are needed. Each company has their own combination to meet the spec, give the results they want, and the cost they're willing to incur.) So...Castrol Syntec is good oil, is made from Group III base stocks, probably is not the quality of an oil made from Group IV & V base stocks, and OK if the price is right. Ken [ November 30, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Ken ]
 
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874
Location
Pacific NW
If I recall, it was a marketing body who decided to redefine "synthetic", and for business not technical reasons. SAE went along with it. There are many tales available by googling. One of the most famous summaries is by Car & Driver's Patrick Bedard. Look for "bedard synthetic symantics". It's a fair oil, but analyses show it doesn't hold a candle to M1 or other top-tier oils. Yet it costs as much or more. Consensus here is that their GTX is about as good for 1/3 the price. I was surprised a complete Mobil/Syntec saga didn't turn up in searches here. Suppose it's been repeated enough elsewhere. Here are a couple local opinion threads: Why is Castrol Syntec so bad.... Group III v. Group IV--- Go ahead attack me! BTW, [Welcome!] !! [Big Grin] David
 

cobravenom71

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67
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Kissimee, Fla.
[Smile] Thanks for the welcome! I usually spend my time on a couple of classic car forums dealing with the ignorant ramblings of the 'posters'. It seems like here that I will definately get a 'run for my money'! [Big Grin]
 

Patman

Staff member
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21,988
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Oakville, Ontario
I've seen so many good GTX oil analysis results, but really no good Syntec results. What I would love to see though, is someone run two intervals with one, then two intervals with the other, and see if they see a difference. I bet the GTX ends up with better results, because from what we've seen so far, it seems to be the better oil, even though it's lower in price.
 
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5,785
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Dixie
What these posts fail to mention is that Castrol was buying some or all of their PAO basestock from Mobil, so when they switched to buying Group III basestocks from Shell and Petro Canada, Mobil lost millions of dollars a year in basestock sales. As Paul Harvey sez ...that's the rest of the story [Wink] Ted
 
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Saratoga, NY
TooSlick, you were right to point that out. But, I agreed with Mobil on this matter. Here's a case where their selfish commercial interests paralleled "doin' what's right." [Smile] --- Bror Jace
 

Jay

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1,607
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Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: What these posts fail to mention is that Castrol was buying some or all of their PAO basestock from Mobil, so when they switched to buying Group III basestocks from Shell and Petro Canada, Mobil lost millions of dollars a year in basestock sales. As Paul Harvey sez ...that's the rest of the story [Wink] Ted
Yes but Mobil wasn't suing them for the loss of business. They were suing them for plagiarizing the term "synthetic" and rightly so. Mobil and others spent millions promoting and educating the public on the merits of synthetic oil verses conventional oil, and now suddenly there was Castrol calling their group III oil synthetic. Undoubtedly Amsoil and a few other true synthetic oil makers would like to have seen a different outcome in the Mobil vs Castrol case. Castrol did a bait & switch that changed the industry for the worse. Mobil took the high road and spent the big bucks to try to stop them.
 

driven2services

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After reading the posts on this board, it looks like the labeling will remain as we now have seen it, with Synthetic being the variable base stock, Group III/IV/V and some combination of them. The answer appears to me is that I just have to be better informed on my purchase of oil and what it contains. That is why I have been lurking on here.
 

cobravenom71

Thread starter
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67
Location
Kissimee, Fla.
Mechanic, Why wouldn't knowing what the base-stocks are in a particular brand of oil help in determining the quality of that oil? [Confused] It seems like it would be valuable info. If not, please explain why. [Burnout]
 
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198
Location
Canada
TheMechanic, No it would not be THE determining factor, but it might be A determining factor - this could serve those looking for a quality synthetic product AND those looking for a quality petroleum product.
 

Al

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19,154
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Elizabethtown, Pa
The advantage will still go to Castrol. The overwhelming percentage of folks will not ever realize the difference between group III or Group IV & V. Even if 50% would know the difference Castrol still wins. Lying distorting and reinventing the "truth" almost always pays in todays world [Frown] .
 
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198
Location
Canada
But is it not true that prior to this Mobil was doing the same thing with their "synthetics" marketed in Europe? (Group III's) I still do not like it - it would be nice if the oil companies had to name the basestocks used on their labels.
 
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Location
Utah
quote:
Originally posted by Tommy: I still do not like it - it would be nice if the oil companies had to name the basestocks used on their labels.
So if you were to be able to tell the exact base stock used would this be the determining factor for you as it being the better oil?
 
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117
Location
USA
I was told / asked ... Castrol has detergency additives to clean (flush) deposits from an engine when switching from dino. Is this true? I have also heard it refered to as a "mixture". Are they confusing terminology and what they really mean is "semi-synthetic", Group III? Can you explain to me the differences in the two products offered by Castrol in a couple of sentences. Thanks.
 
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117
Location
USA
Actual comment from someone that I would appreciate a response to (I think it explains the "mixable" comment from above): ---------- "A little trick I do when converting from dino to synths is to find a synthetic that is mixable with dino oil (castrol syntec does it) to make home-made half synths, and run that twice to clean all of the crap from the system before you use the good stuff. kinda like an enima for your engine. synths cleanout your system, but in my opinion it'd be better to use an oil that will absorb and use the oil instead of coating it and depositing it somewhere else in the system..." ---------- I know there is no benefit from mixing and creating "half-synths", and I have heard concerns of the "deposits" being redeposited elsewhere in the engine ... after converting to synthetic oil. Thanks for ALL comments!
 
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1,933
Location
Oklahoma
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: Castrol did a bait & switch that changed the industry for the worse. Mobil took the high road and spent the big bucks to try to stop them.
Yep it seems so and I use some of their Supersyn oil because of it [Smile] ,,plus it is very good and 50 cents less per quart here, more savings in the jugs. Was a long time user of the Mobil Dino and it treated me well. I wonder what the percentage of consumers in the USA is that actually knows about what happened ? What the percentage is that knows and cares? [Wink] [ February 05, 2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
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2,480
Maybe Syntec uses more Esters than Mobil 1 even though they're mixed with Group III rather than PAO's since it smells so sweet? How to confirm this?
 
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