Castrol Syntec 0w-30 GOLD GERMAN CASTROL, 5238 miles on oil, 1997 VW Passat GLX -VR6

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
GOLD IS GOOD! [Happy] This is my second UOA done on this engine - prior analysis was done on Lubro Moly Voll-Synthese (5w-50) nearly 50k miles ago. That analysis along with assorted comments can be found in this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001353#000000 I've used Lubro Moly until my last couple of oil changes - this test is from my second change using Gold GC, the first fill being changed after about 5,000 miles. I'm pleased, and will probably continue to use this oil as long as I can find it. I've collected what I can for GC VOA results, but have found conflicting sodum results 14 and 4.
code:
  

1997 Passat VR6
Sump Capacity:  5.8 Quarts



Type of oil         Lubro Moly       Castrol      Univ-Avg     Castrol
                    Voll-Synthese    Syntec                    Syntec
                                     GC-GOLD                   GC-GOLD

Weight              5w-40            0w-30                     0W-30

Date                03/07/04         09/10/05

Miles on engine     234074           281289

Miles on oil          7414             5238                    0 - VOA

Makeup Oil          1.5qts           2.0qts

Aluminum                 4                2            4            <1
Chromium                 1                1            1            <1
Iron                    15               10           17             3
Copper                   2                4            5            <1
Lead                    12                9            4            <1
Tin                      1                1            1            <1
Molybdenum               4               11           40            <1
Nickel                   1                0            1            <1
Manganese                1                0            2            <1
Sliver                   0                0            0            <1
Titanium                 0                0            0            <1
Potassium                0                0            1            12
Boron                   89               12           61            <1
Silicon                  4                3            6             4
Sodium                   3                4            4            14
Calcium               1938             1752         2353          1941
Magnesium              383              406          205           770
Phosphorus             772              730          787           903
Zinc                   905              765          939          1157
Barium                   0                0            4

TBN                    4.4              7.6                       9.03

SUS Visco @210:       70.7             68.9                       [email protected]
Flashpoint:            380              390
Fuel %:                0.8             <0.5
Antifreeze %:          0.0              0.0
Water %:               0.0              0.0
Insolubles %:          0.4              0.3

More Comments to come - will add to this post when I receive Terry's interpretation of these results.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,105
Location
Mobile, AL
2 Quarts of make up oil??? If thats the case it's no wonder contaminents were low. They all leaked out! LOL
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
26,786
Location
CA
quote:
Originally posted by f1forkvr6: Actually, no major oil leaks (some seepage, but not enough to drop the oil level significantly in even 10k miles). VR6's of this vintage tend to use oil seemingly from the factory. Higher RPMs, and speeds will increase this usage. This engine does see RPMs exceeding 5800 fairly regularly, and my commute is about 65% higway driving (avg of about 80mph in my neck of the woods). Nearly all of this oil is captured and burned by the PCV system. A quart every 2500 miles isn't that bad for an engine known to use oil (factory specs tolerate a quart used every 1k miles as "normal") [Eek!] . Now I'm sure the make-up oil helps the TBN, but I'm not sure it'll "remove" contaminants.
You're right. It doesn't remove the contaminants, it dilutes them. Mike
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
The blow-by actually has a small impact (slight increase) on insoluables. Regardless, the sump contains the same volume of oil, regardless of how new or old it is - if the contaminants don't leak out, they will be in the same concentration. Ponder this - if you start with 2 gallons of salt water with a known concentration of salt, boil-away a gallon, and add gallon of fresh water, would the salt concentration not be the same? I still maintain that the only thing the fresh oil materially helps with is TBN.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,105
Location
Mobile, AL
quote:
Originally posted by f1forkvr6: The blow-by actually has a small impact (slight increase) on insoluables. Regardless, the sump contains the same volume of oil, regardless of how new or old it is - if the contaminants don't leak out, they will be in the same concentration. Ponder this - if you start with 2 gallons of salt water with a known concentration of salt, boil-away a gallon, and add gallon of fresh water, would the salt concentration not be the same? I still maintain that the only thing the fresh oil materially helps with is TBN.
You are not "boiling" away the oil. You are burning it away. Some of the contaminants are being removed by blow by and in turn are blown out the exhaust. If you are losing oil you are also losing contaminants. It's really that simple.
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
Perhaps my analogy is flawed, but I am not personaly worried that the oil-consumption is out of whack for this engine, nor am I concerned that it skewed the analysis to the point that it isn't valid (far from it). I'm happy with the results of this oil, and will continue to use it. Recieved analysis from Terry, Nothing of major concern noted: Excellent result on a HIGH mileage engine Lead was slight concern for elevated bearing wear - but "not out of control from the total miles" Flashpoint depleted a bit from blowby Insolubles - normal but increased a bit because of the oil consumption.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,105
Location
Mobile, AL
Does that say 282k miles? If so I would say that indeed you have nothing to worry about with consumption. However, I would recommend going to M1 5w-40 (Truck and SUV) to decrease consumption. Other than that everything looks good.
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
Yup - 282k when sampled, 283K+ now. Economy has remained consistent (18/24.5/29, city/combined/highway), performance hasn't suffered, idles smoothly, starts immedately ... I'm not worried either. A lot of miles on stock valve guides, but as long as it doesn't dip much further, I've got no compelling reason to pull the head and replace them. I'm going for 400k [Big Grin]
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
Purchased used with 91k miles (leased vehicle, mostly dealer maintained). I've only used synthetic since I've owned it - mainly Lubro Moly, with the occasional M1 when Lubro Moly wasn't available. Decided to try GC and so far, so good.
 
Joined
Aug 30, 2004
Messages
26,786
Location
CA
I agree. Due to the large amount of make-up oil, the numbers were skewed. The Fe number was probably at least 40% higher if it wasn't for the make-up oil. Mike
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
Actually, no major oil leaks (some seepage, but not enough to drop the oil level significantly in even 10k miles). VR6's of this vintage tend to use oil seemingly from the factory. Higher RPMs, and speeds will increase this usage. This engine does see RPMs exceeding 5800 fairly regularly, and my commute is about 65% higway driving (avg of about 80mph in my neck of the woods). Nearly all of this oil is captured and burned by the PCV system. A quart every 2500 miles isn't that bad for an engine known to use oil (factory specs tolerate a quart used every 1k miles as "normal") [Eek!] . Now I'm sure the make-up oil helps the TBN, but I'm not sure it'll "remove" contaminants.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Messages
1,462
Location
MD
The VR6 is a pretty stout motor overall.Well built! Have you had to do any work on the timing chain assembly?
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
At 259k when it was time for clutch, for purely preventive measures (i.e. no symptoms of anything bad), replaced upper & lower timing chains, guides & tensioners. All were in good working order & showed minimal wear. My timing parts are the "new style" VR6 parts and held up well. Also, again for preventive purposes, I replaced the rear main seal at the same time. Other than that, nothing done other than routine fluids, filters, plugs, wires, etc ....
 
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
1,407
Location
Vail, Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by f1forkvr6: Actually, no major oil leaks (some seepage, but not enough to drop the oil level significantly in even 10k miles). VR6's of this vintage tend to use oil seemingly from the factory. Higher RPMs, and speeds will increase this usage. This engine does see RPMs exceeding 5800 fairly regularly, and my commute is about 65% higway driving (avg of about 80mph in my neck of the woods). Nearly all of this oil is captured and burned by the PCV system. A quart every 2500 miles isn't that bad for an engine known to use oil (factory specs tolerate a quart used every 1k miles as "normal") [Eek!] . Now I'm sure the make-up oil helps the TBN, but I'm not sure it'll "remove" contaminants.
I had a 1993 Passat GLX and a 1006 Passat GLX. I ran them on Redline 10W-40 and I drove them as hard as they could go. I never had any significant oil consumption with Redline... maybe 1/3 of a quart over 7000 miles. That is one of the reasons I like Redline, the lowest oil consumtion I've seen and also the lowest oil temps. I used to hit the oil temp limit with Mobil 1, and never with Redline. Oil temps stayed much lower with Redline.
 

f1forkvr6

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
85
Location
Portsmouth, NH
How many miles did you have on each of your VR6s? Did you do any UOAs? How did they look? My oil Consumption appears to be decreasing with the 3rd fill of GC (first was Green, second - tested above - was Gold, and I am currently running Gold). So far, only 1/2 qt in the past 2500+ miles.
 
Joined
Mar 2, 2004
Messages
3,421
Location
Kentucky
The VR6 engine is seemingly bulletproof for the most part with the exception of timing chains (I want to slap whoever decided to put them at the rear of the engine). Mine just turned 75k, and has no noticable consumption in 5k intervals using M1 0-40, and 5w-40 T&SUV. Runs like a champ. I'm running 5w-40 Belgian Castrol right now, and plan to do a UOA shortly.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
142
Location
Goldsboro, PA
fiForkVR6 will probably hit the magic Half-million mile mark..All engines should be treated as well.. At around 100K the timing chain broke in my ex-VR6, doing some $$$$damage for the previous owner.. Very interesting that Red Line controls oil temperature better than Mobil 1....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top