Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Danh
Don't leave us in suspense. Without giving away the store, how does a civilian "control" fuel dilution in a modern DI engine and preserve the warranty at the same time? I'd love to have a strategy.
From other threads, I believe that his solution is to go thinner.
So if a 0W20 is too thick to control ring seal, then surely the fuel dilution would be "better" from that perspective and self limiting as it further improved things.
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Because filters do not behave the same way in every engine, in each oil and fuel. We are also missing vital data needed to make those determinations. You have to know and test many combos. Aftermarket filters almost always perform better than their OEM alternatives and tend to be the same price.
From his data, 0.3 at 5,000 miles is too high. What is this 100% related to? No one really knows because we're missing crucial data.
It's likely EGRed fuel residuals, FD, and poor filtration. After a while, you start to see the same trends over and over again.
You don't think the Ceratech solids are part of the high insolubles ?
No, and this is why I can't just give blanket statements and people get all butt hurt because I didn't give them what they wanted to hear but rather the truth. There are many different solutions but without the tests we don't know what the right solution is. For some vehicles, it's a thinner oil, for some it's a different additive pack, or base stock. Some need a fuel additive, some need different filters, so need new spark plugs or O2 sensors. It's like you have cancer but you don't know where it is. You have to target the specific cells right? Same applies here, yet we have limited data so we don't know which way to target it. So I can't and won't just randomly name out oils without knowing what's really happening.
2. oil_film_movies, he is quick to dismiss and say there's nothing, but here's the facts. At 7.62, you're in the 3.5-5% fuel dilution range. How do I know? I've done thousands of full on blast UOA's. I've seen hundreds of civics, kias, fords, and so many other cars. When I left Tribologik, my personal database of UOA on gasoline engines from Lamborghini's to Toyotas was over 18,000 UOA's. Trust me if fuel dilution could be calculated by an equation based on the viscosity at 100C, it would have been done already. We've tried calculating fuel % using every method and proprietary method with little luck. GC is the one and only way.
My civic at 8,000 miles at 7.9cst had 2.7% fuel dilution and it has 170,000 miles(2009) and I use every trick in the book. Best air and oil filters, new plugs, fuel additives, ethanol mixing, decent oil(M1 5W20). It's an old engine I used to stomp on really hard, I'm thinking I should be able to get into the 2% FD on the next test and it's driven for less than 10 minutes at a time now, so this is very good FD readings for that kind of start stop style.
People on here rip on me, but it's hard to defend myself when guys like that think they know something when they don't. The few that know I'm right haven't chimed in, and I think I know why, but it's a shame they won't back what I am saying. When you've done over 1,000 UOA's with GC and not some estimate that is never right and always shows 0, you see the trends over and over again.
I used to fight guys on other forums telling them they had fuel and they said you're wrong, etc. It wasn't until three senior mods sent in samples to both labs but got GC on one and flashpoint on the other. Their eyes opened wide when one sample came back at 7% and Blackstone was saying 1.3%. When you use GC and see what it shows, you'll never go back, it really shows you how flawed flash is.
Blackstone's pentanes insolubles test is probably one of the best out there. It's certainly possible the ceratech is increasing the reading but I doubt it. Again we have no GC or FTIR but we/or at least I know, he's got a good amount of FD going, and until we get a GC reading we don't know how high he is. If he's having high levels of fuel dilution and poor filtration, those EGRed residuals are getting dumped into the oil. He may need a fuel additive to control intake valve deposits, most likely will. deposits will raise fuel dilution readings within a few percentages on a new engine.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Don't leave us in suspense. Without giving away the store, how does a civilian "control" fuel dilution in a modern DI engine and preserve the warranty at the same time? I'd love to have a strategy.
From other threads, I believe that his solution is to go thinner.
So if a 0W20 is too thick to control ring seal, then surely the fuel dilution would be "better" from that perspective and self limiting as it further improved things.
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Because filters do not behave the same way in every engine, in each oil and fuel. We are also missing vital data needed to make those determinations. You have to know and test many combos. Aftermarket filters almost always perform better than their OEM alternatives and tend to be the same price.
From his data, 0.3 at 5,000 miles is too high. What is this 100% related to? No one really knows because we're missing crucial data.
It's likely EGRed fuel residuals, FD, and poor filtration. After a while, you start to see the same trends over and over again.
You don't think the Ceratech solids are part of the high insolubles ?
No, and this is why I can't just give blanket statements and people get all butt hurt because I didn't give them what they wanted to hear but rather the truth. There are many different solutions but without the tests we don't know what the right solution is. For some vehicles, it's a thinner oil, for some it's a different additive pack, or base stock. Some need a fuel additive, some need different filters, so need new spark plugs or O2 sensors. It's like you have cancer but you don't know where it is. You have to target the specific cells right? Same applies here, yet we have limited data so we don't know which way to target it. So I can't and won't just randomly name out oils without knowing what's really happening.
2. oil_film_movies, he is quick to dismiss and say there's nothing, but here's the facts. At 7.62, you're in the 3.5-5% fuel dilution range. How do I know? I've done thousands of full on blast UOA's. I've seen hundreds of civics, kias, fords, and so many other cars. When I left Tribologik, my personal database of UOA on gasoline engines from Lamborghini's to Toyotas was over 18,000 UOA's. Trust me if fuel dilution could be calculated by an equation based on the viscosity at 100C, it would have been done already. We've tried calculating fuel % using every method and proprietary method with little luck. GC is the one and only way.
My civic at 8,000 miles at 7.9cst had 2.7% fuel dilution and it has 170,000 miles(2009) and I use every trick in the book. Best air and oil filters, new plugs, fuel additives, ethanol mixing, decent oil(M1 5W20). It's an old engine I used to stomp on really hard, I'm thinking I should be able to get into the 2% FD on the next test and it's driven for less than 10 minutes at a time now, so this is very good FD readings for that kind of start stop style.
People on here rip on me, but it's hard to defend myself when guys like that think they know something when they don't. The few that know I'm right haven't chimed in, and I think I know why, but it's a shame they won't back what I am saying. When you've done over 1,000 UOA's with GC and not some estimate that is never right and always shows 0, you see the trends over and over again.
I used to fight guys on other forums telling them they had fuel and they said you're wrong, etc. It wasn't until three senior mods sent in samples to both labs but got GC on one and flashpoint on the other. Their eyes opened wide when one sample came back at 7% and Blackstone was saying 1.3%. When you use GC and see what it shows, you'll never go back, it really shows you how flawed flash is.
Blackstone's pentanes insolubles test is probably one of the best out there. It's certainly possible the ceratech is increasing the reading but I doubt it. Again we have no GC or FTIR but we/or at least I know, he's got a good amount of FD going, and until we get a GC reading we don't know how high he is. If he's having high levels of fuel dilution and poor filtration, those EGRed residuals are getting dumped into the oil. He may need a fuel additive to control intake valve deposits, most likely will. deposits will raise fuel dilution readings within a few percentages on a new engine.
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