Castrol Edge

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quote:

Originally posted by Primus:
According to MSDS Castrol SLX Longtec is Gr.III/IV blend, but meets number of latest OEM requirements including those of 30-50K oil interval (GM 025).

This is what Terry had to say in regards to Green GC which is largely believed to be Castrol SLX. Is Castrol SLX Longtech a different blend? I don't know...

"ZOil is primarily a PAO based lubricant. Nothing but Group4 and higher components. We are currently attempting to break out and ID the complex and unique esters used in the formula. More later.

Our testing to date has included EI and CI mass spec work, currently we have another lab performing additional testing, hopefully that can catalog the complex hydrocarbons, and others we see.
The very exciting constituents we are encountering is that the esters used are unlike any you would find in Redline, Amsoil, or Mobil1 formulas.
My hat is off to the formulator of Zoil that we are testing.
No TCP or POE esters involved here. Elves indeed."
 
That post that i put up was no garbage, that was a post sent to me in SA, regarding Castrol Edge product when it was launched late Aug, they were the words from one of the managing directors of BP, he overlooks the blend facility, and he stated it was group III.
 
BP+Castrol= in bed
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Its a PAO 5, which base III oils are categorized under it.

Read Article:

Article by Pat Bedard in Car & Driver, 11/00.

"Now that the meaning of "is" has gotten so slippery you need to grab it with both hands, we'd better keep an eye on longer words, too.

One's already gone squirmy on us -- "synthetic," as in synthetic motor oil.

Most guys know two things about synthetic oils. First, the price is three to four times that of conventional oils. Second, they're not real oil, not made from crude.

News flash: Scratch that second part. Now motor oils derived from crude may be labeled "synthetic." But they still cost over four bucks a quart.

Bait and switch? That's the obvious conclusion. Except in this case the advertising ethics people have given their approval.

Here's what happened, according to a detailed account published in the trade magazine Lubricants World. Late in 1997, Castrol changed the formula of its Syntec "full synthetic motor oil," eliminating the polyalphaolefin (PAO) base stock (that's the "synthetic" part, which makes up about 70 percent by volume of what's in the bottle) and replacing it with a "hydroisomerized" petroleum base stock.

Mobil Oil Corporation, maker of Mobil 1, "World's Leading Synthetic Motor Oil," said no fair and took its complaint to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. NAD often arbitrates between feuding advertisers on their conflicting claims.

The notion behind synthetic motor oils as we've known them is an elegant one. Instead of relying on the cocktail of hydrocarbons contained in crude oil, why not go into the laboratory and build the perfect base stock from scratch, molecule by molecule? The synthesizing of PAO starts with ethylene gas, a simple two-carbon molecule, and builds till it gets 10-carbon molecules, then combines three of those to form PAO. The result is a fluid more stable than the usual base oils derived from crude. It keeps flowing at low temperatures. It's more resistant to boiling off, and more resistant to oxidation, which causes thickening with prolonged exposure to high temperatures.

Still, there's more than one road to the point B of improved stability. Petroleum refiners in recent years have learned how to break apart certain undesirable molecules -- wax, for example, which causes thickening at low temperatures -- and transform them by chemical reaction into helpful molecules. These new hydroisomerized base oils, in the view of some industry participants, "provided properties similar to PAOs but cost only half as much," Lubricants World reported.

The argument before NAD tiptoed around the obvious -- does the consumer get four bucks' worth of value from each quart of synthetic oil? -- and plunged straight into deep semantics. Mobil's experts said "synthetic" traditionally meant big molecules built up from small ones. Castrol's side held out for a looser description, defining "synthetic" as "the product of an intended chemical reaction."

What do unbiased sources say? It turns out that the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and the American Petroleum Institute (API) both have technical standards covering motor oils, and both of these organizations in the '90s backed away from their old definitions of "synthetic," leaving lots of room for new interpretations.

In the end, NAD decided that the evidence "constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil," said Lubricants World.

The obvious question now: Has the term "synthetic motor oil" been opened up to the point that it no longer means anything? Maybe. But here's a better question: Did synthetic ever mean what we thought it meant?

"Great oil" is what most guys think it means. "At that price, it's gotta be great stuff!"

Okay, but how great? Your car's manual tells what motor oil you should use, and with few exceptions, that description will consist of only two specifications. One is for viscosity, such as 10W-30; and another is for the API service grade, SJ being the current one for gasoline passenger cars.

The buck-a-quart multigrades meet these standards, as do the synthetics.

The synthetics, on the back label, claim compliance with more standards, but even if you know what they mean, they seem beside the point for U.S. passenger cars. For example, should you care about diesels if you drive a gasoline burner? API service CF is the oldest of the current specs for light-duty diesels; some synthetics list that one. Synthetics may also list ACEA A1 and B1, which are European specs roughly equivalent to API gasoline and diesel specs. The Europeans grade their oils by levels of performance, so that A2 and A3 are tougher specs than A1. Same for diesels. Usually, the date of the spec is omitted, but A1-98 is newer than A1-96.

Completely absent is the one performance claim that would have real meaning for all of us -- some indication of longer oil life. But automakers hold synthetics to the same change intervals as conventional oils. And the oil companies, if anything, promise even less. "To give added protection and life to your engine, change your oil every 3000 miles." This same language appears on the back of both Pennzoil Synthetic and Pennzoil conventional oils. Valvoline synthetic makes a similar recommendation.

Synthetics do get one unambiguous endorsement: Corvettes, Porsches, Vipers, and all AMG models from Mercedes-Benz come with Mobil 1 as the factory fill.

Most synthetics mention GM 4718M in their list of claims; that's the unique spec created by General Motors for Corvette oil. It's a high-temperature requirement that tolerates less oxidation (thickening) and volatility (boil-off) on a standard engine test called Sequence IIIE, according to engineer Bob Olree of GM Powertrain.

But don't expect to learn such details on any label. Mobil 1 at least uses straightforward declarative sentences. Most of the others read as though they were written by a lawyer looking for an escape clause. Why else would the following claim be so rubbery? "Pennzoil Synthetic motor oil is recommended for use in all engines requiring ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, API SJ, SH, or SG, and in engines requiring oils meeting GM 4718M." Okay, but does it actually pass those standards?

"Yes," says James Newsom, Pennzoil's motor-oil product manager.

Castrol Syntec, on its label, "exceeds" every standard it mentions. Hmm. Now that the meaning of "is" is in play, I have to wonder, does Syntec meet those standards as well?

"It does," says Castrol's Juli Anne Oberg. While I have her on the phone, I ask if there will be a Syntec price reduction now that a lower-cost base stock has been substituted for the old synthetic. She says no."
 
It wouldn't surprise me if they are using a bit of Group III, but that shouldn't matter to anyone. It's the end product that matters and additives play just as important of a role. Look at Amsoil and Havoline's 5w-20's for instance. Group III and II+ with a very good additive package that can compensate probably for a lower baseoil. No need to worry IMO.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
Its a PAO 5, which base III oils are categorized under it.

Huh?
confused.gif


FTR, unless BP has recently come up with something really revolutionary in Group III base oils (which they haven't), it is IMPOSSIBLE to make 0w40 and 10w60 oils with nothing but Group III in the base oil blend. The Edge oils may have SOME Group III in them, but I don't believe for a minute that every grade is made from nothing but Group III. The two grades above would HAVE to have some PAO and esters (Group V), and more than likely ALL the grades do.

NB: I think all the old timers on here are more than familiar with Bedard's ancient Car & Driver article.
 
quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
Its a PAO 5, which base III oils are categorized under it.

Huh?
confused.gif


FTR, unless BP has recently come up with something really revolutionary in Group III base oils (which they haven't), it is IMPOSSIBLE to make 0w40 and 10w60 oils with nothing but Group III in the base oil blend. The Edge oils may have SOME Group III in them, but I don't believe for a minute that every grade is made from nothing but Group III. The two grades above would HAVE to have some PAO and esters (Group V), and more than likely ALL the grades do.

NB: I think all the old timers on here are more than familiar with Bedard's ancient Car & Driver article.


Maybe different from country to country, all i'm saying is that The Castrol Edge product in SA, is only Group III base oils, straight from the blend facility in Dbn, they marketed it as "their best oil yet".

If Castrol were to say, that the TXT and RS are indeed PAO and would perform better, you do the math. sounds like a marketing ploy to me...
 
From what I was told by Castrol NA is that they source materials from all over the world, probably much like other companies. It wouldn't suprise me at all if Castrol used Grp III. Their Syntec line over here, other then GC, is an over priced Grp III that I have yet to see last more then 7k miles with sufficient TBN. Wear is fine. If they can save money and use GrpIII, they will. I do think some of the Edge line is PAO or a PAO blend.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
Maybe different from country to country, all i'm saying is that The Castrol Edge product in SA, is only Group III base oils, straight from the blend facility in Dbn, they marketed it as "their best oil yet".

The topic of discussion (based on the link in the first post) was Castrol Edge in the UK. I stand by what I said regarding 0w40 and 10w60: You can't make these oils with a base oil blend comprised of nothing but Group III. If these grades are sold in ZA then they are not all Group III.

Edit: I just went to the Castrol South Africa web site and the Edge line of oils isn't even listed.
 
quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:
Edit: I just went to the Castrol South Africa web site and the Edge line of oils isn't even listed. [/QB]

Try this link: Castrol Edge

Sweden has now been added in the last week or so, so it would appear that the Edge brand is being rolled out one or two countries at a time.
 
quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
Maybe different from country to country, all i'm saying is that The Castrol Edge product in SA, is only Group III base oils, straight from the blend facility in Dbn, they marketed it as "their best oil yet".

The topic of discussion (based on the link in the first post) was Castrol Edge in the UK. I stand by what I said regarding 0w40 and 10w60: You can't make these oils with a base oil blend comprised of nothing but Group III. If these grades are sold in ZA then they are not all Group III.

Edit: I just went to the Castrol South Africa web site and the Edge line of oils isn't even listed.


Seems they don't need to list in for it to be in our stores...
grin.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by Paranoil:

quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:
Edit: I just went to the Castrol South Africa web site and the Edge line of oils isn't even listed.
Try this link: Castrol Edge

Sweden has now been added in the last week or so, so it would appear that the Edge brand is being rolled out one or two countries at a time. [/QB]

Thanks. I see that in ZA only two grades are offered: 10w60 and 5w40 and both are listed as "fully synthetic."
 
quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
The Edge products are Group 3 base oil based

Yeah, right.
rolleyes.gif


G-Man when I talk oils I "forget" about the VII and will say oh that is a GPII or that is a PAO/GPII blend so this oil maybe only GPIII base oil and that could be BUT it will also have to have a VII of some sort as you stated NO way otherwise.


cheers.gif

bruce
 
quote:

Originally posted by bruce381:

quote:

Originally posted by G-Man II:

quote:

Originally posted by Achilles:
The Edge products are Group 3 base oil based

Yeah, right.
rolleyes.gif


G-Man when I talk oils I "forget" about the VII and will say oh that is a GPII or that is a PAO/GPII blend so this oil maybe only GPIII base oil and that could be BUT it will also have to have a VII of some sort as you stated NO way otherwise.

cheers.gif

bruce


That's not the case here. Group III oils are only made in a couple of rather low viscosity cuts which makes them excllent choices for making 0w20, 0w30, 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, 5w40, and 10w40. The viscosity spread upper limit for an all Group III based oil that meets SL and SM standards is 5w40. You can theoretically make a 5w50, 0w40, or 10w60 with all Group III, but the level of VI improver you'd have to use would preclude it from meeting current API SL or SM specs for camshaft wear and hi-temp deposit control. (Which were the same problem areas 10w40 oils made from Group I had back in the 70s and 80s.)
 
"but the level of VI improver you'd have to use would preclude it from meeting current API SL or SM specs for camshaft wear and hi-temp deposit control."


I will agree and defer to you on the SM camshaft wear tests in that I do not know if the high amount of VII will/would/maybe cause more cam wear.


I thought that since the lower EC vis grades are the more popular, that is where the marketing efforts are spent I never thought about heavier grades or lack of.

bruce
 
wel waht is the aveage price of a group III base oil then per Q?? ours is: R170 for 5L, works out to about $5 a quart...
 
Isn't the European system clear on this?

I thought a 'Full Synthetic' oil in Europe was Group IV and or Group V.

=========================================

Edge
SAE 0W-30 for modern engines
________________________________________________________________________________

Applications

Castrol EDGE 0W-30 is Castrol's latest generation technology, high performance engine oil.

It is a fully synthetic, 0W-30 viscosity engine oil which meets a wide range of Mercedes, General Motors, BMW and VW specifications.
 
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