It depends what is cause of oil consumption.
Is it just evaporation loss, or is it mechanical problem? With such low KV100, any small issue can turn into oil consumption problem.
Castrol EDGE Extended Performance 0W-20 meets MB 229.71 (6/9/2020)
- Thread starter wemay
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Is it just evaporation loss, or is it mechanical problem? With such low KV100, any small issue can turn into oil consumption problem.
The first words of your previous response were “not true”, it’s not twisting words when it’s what you typed and you didn’t specify.
So you’re grabbing bits and pieces of an overall formulation to make an opinion. Got it. It’s hard to make it fact when you don’t have all the information about the oils as there are many components you can’t see from an oil analysis, SDS or PDS.
I also think it needs to be clarified if by “cheaper product”, you mean cheaper as in cost or cheaper as in quality.
XOM can obtain PAO pretty easily as they produce it, and it could be “cheaper” for them utilize than it would be for other blenders/formulators to purchase and use.
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Castrol too can obtain PAO easily. What do you think of Castrol? Castrol products such as 0W30 A3, 0W40 A3, 0W30 C3, 10W60 Super Car, 0W40 Super Car are packed with PAO and until few years had much more PAO content than M1 products of similar nature.
MB229.71 approval sets up minimum requirements, not maximum requirements. Castrol in Wal Mart has three products that are approved for MB229.5: 0W40, 5W40 and 5W30 A3. Of those three, 0W40 is absolute step up from two others, but all three are approved for MB229.5.
Until recently all ILSAC GF-5 products Castrol offered were ACEA A1/B1, while Mobil1 and Pennzoil offered A5 products for years. It is not until API, ILSAC etc. approvals became bit more stringent when Castrol offered better products. It is not that they could not offer 5W30 EP with ACEA A5, it is that they did not want to offer, bcs. they could get away with it. That is why I use M1 5W30 EP in my Toyota.
As for not true, I was referring to companies do not want to spend extra. They do. They obviously have different way of selling their products and strategy when it comes to long term business.
As for bits and pieces, there are much more bits and pieces in pds and sds, but I would not call 60-70% PAO content as "bits and pieces." It is fundamental difference.
I use many castrol products. The last sentence of your response applies to almost every oil formulator/blender. It’s all about their end goal of meeting the required specifications. Shell, valvoline, even XOM, etc do this. That’s why they have different tiered oils. A lot of this still the fallout of the Castrol/XOM lawsuit of what is “synthetic”. The Castrol products above are not made in the US.
Sure, so we are lucky Mobil1 offers better product than Castrol. Not that Castrol cannot offer better product than Mobil1.
How about Castrol 0w-40 vs M1 0w-40. Which one has more PAO? In this case we are lucky Castrol offers a better product than Mobil.
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Just stop perpetuating the PAO nonsense regarding shear stability / thermal stability. GTL and good HC are in the same league, they all are bad ;-)
Until treated. In case of EP most probably complemented = treated with AN no one sees in SDS. Otherwise no thermal stability to be found in base oils. Likewise shear stability ain't lost and found in base oils.
Mere blending of Mobil1 cult and PAO religion + fatuous Castrol phobia that really could be stopped. That's indign.
Until treated. In case of EP most probably complemented = treated with AN no one sees in SDS. Otherwise no thermal stability to be found in base oils. Likewise shear stability ain't lost and found in base oils.
Mere blending of Mobil1 cult and PAO religion + fatuous Castrol phobia that really could be stopped. That's indign.
Sure.
M1 is GTL based, but has both PAO and Esters. I used more Castrol 0W40 than M1, although I have M1 in my BMW right now, just bcs. But these two oils are pretty much of same nature, and you could flip the coin to figure out which one is better, and both are top of the line in their offerings.
One thing that I appreciate M1 more lately is that it offers more info. Castrol as of last few years is very shy about HTHS, Noack numbers etc.
But the Castrol has more PAO and according to what you stated earlier in the thread must be the better oil?
No I did not state that. I said having more PAO is fundamental difference, same as having more Group II is fundamental difference.
More PAO offers some benefits over HC based oil.
According to your interpretation more PAO over ester is better too, but it is not, nor more ester could be beneficial too if it is not mixed properly.
M1 for example has some ester in their 0W40 oil, as well as GTL base. All have their own advantage. Castrol 0W40 does not have GTL or Esters. That does not mean it is inferior to M1 0W40.
For same reason I do not buy Castrol 5W40 for my VW or BMW, I would not buy Castrol 0W20 Ep. There are better oils, simple as that.
What is my interpretation? I don’t believe I’ve stated an interpretation about PAO and esters.
You inferred M1 is a superior product because of the amount of PAO is has over Castrol earlier in the thread.
You can’t say that Castrol 0w-40
is better than M1 0w-40 because you don’t have all the information?
New SDS as of 12/10/20:
Looks like Castrol is 25-50% PAO. Not sure if that was the case before.
Yep and M1 0w-40 is 10-20%.
Yes, when it comes to those two specific oils, M1 0W20 and Castrol 0W20.
That does not mean same argument can be applied to 0W40 oils. I do know what is in 0W40 oils. But if one argument holds for 0W20, doe snot mean it holds for 0W40. Those are different oils with different application.
Few years ago was 50-75%, few years before was 75%. Castrol is diluting both 0W30 and 0W40 last 10 years with every new version.
Why not? Why can’t you apply the same criteria to determine what’s a “better” oil? Viscosity grade shouldn’t matter.
With that said, there are many versions of 0W-40 and I am not 100% certain that the referenced SDS is for the A3/B3 502.00 version of the 0W-40.
Castrol continues to fascinate me with the number of products they sell.
I think this last version is same everywhere. But yes, before they had several different versions. Mostly difference was due to logistics bcs. geographical location of manufacturing sites.
Now they have one more version, Super Car, but it seems more marketing trick than real difference compared to regular 0W40.
Bcs. numerous factors between those oils and application of same. Numerous topics on both oils here. You can research.
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