Castrol 5W50 in a 1ZZ-FE

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A guy I know at work was told by his (non toyota) mechanic to run 5W-50 in his new 03 Pontiac Vibe using the vernerable 1.8L 1ZZ-FE motor. I think that for the winter time when temps fall to -30F at times, that this oil is far too thick for this motor.

What are your thoughts. He seems to be having no trouble with it so far, but I think it's not doing this motor any good either.
 
Go with a 0W30 or 40 (ESSO XD in Canuckia
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) .In the wifes 1.8 , using a SuperTech SL 5W30 full syn , It actually seems to like it ! Owners manual specifies an SM grade though .
 
i was thinking the same thing, 5w50 is too thick. in a canadian winter i would want a 0w30 or 40 in that engine.
 
Man that's gravy in the sump lol!

A SM rated 5W30 is all your friend needs.
 
Bad for several reasons. First, I've owned four, six, and eight cyl Toyotas, and all run just fine, verified by UOA, on the spec-ed 30 wt range oils. Second, 5w-50 is likely loaded with vis index improvers. I'll assume the current VIIs are better than the ones of the not-too-distant past that sludged so many engines, but even so, if they're not needed, why have them in there??? Finally, if the owner happens to end up making a big warranty claim Toyota might balk if they test the oil and find that it's two vis grades thicker than what the engine was designed to use. Just say no. . .
 
Very good. One final question:
How do you respond to comments such as "5w50 is no good, since it has to contain a boatload of VII to achieve such a wide viscosity spread."?
 
Dr. T:

Have you ever seen a UOA that seemed to show a Toyota engine needing an oil thicker than an Xw-30? If anything, these engines probably lean in the other direction. In fact, there was an article posted not long ago in which a Toyota official (don't recall his capacity) indicated they were leaning to spec-ing 20 wts. You've also not accounted for the engine, working harder to overcome the resistance of the thicker fluid, actually enduring greater stress/pressure/temperature. Again, I've owned 4, 6, and 8 cyl Toyotas, I'm not exactly an easy driver, I live in a nasty hot climate, and I've not seen the first indication that my engines have suffered from my use of xw-30 oils. So how would using this molasses be somehow "better"?
dunno.gif
 
I'm not neccessarily in the thicker is better mindset, because it may counter the lubrication of upper cylinder rings as hinted in a report by Shell I believe,....

HTHS benefit are there with these oils, but arn't everything. I'd figure these oil weights would better serve low rpm/high load situations rather than high rpm/high load situations. Just a thought.

They say that synthetics can often be formulated without VII unlike the standard petroleum lubricant of like grades. Perhaps this spread for a synthetic contains like quantities of a closer spread, more commonly used viscosity in a petroleum base lubricant? Anyone have the concentration numbers of VII for comparisons sake? One then will suffer from shear related viscosity thinning unless they are shear stable.

Would a shear stable VII not sludge as mentioned if this is caused by it's shearing breakdown, or is this thermally related - thermal decomposition/depolymerization?

One last question...when one is to consider the engine fully warmed-up and theoretically the wear rate has thus stabilized within designed constraints, the oil has reached a viscosity value for which design considerations have been made. Using a higher weight oil, unless leveled warm-up temperature rises to then again reach the designed oil viscosity value, it just might not reach the otherwise warm-up condition as far as wear, etc. If such the case, then viscosity maintenance for the sake of all out equipment protection no matter the ambient condition, would best be served via thermostatically controlled, full flow oil cooling. The engine coolant system helps to a degree, but when it comes to extreme conditions, it's only so effective at wicking the heat from the block (in direct thermal transfer).

Sorry for the side-step.
 
seems like overkill if the engine isn't warmed up properly.

he isn't doing his gas mileage any favors.
 
Sure, maybe any cheapo oil will do just fine in the Toyota, but maybe the owner asked the mechanic: "what's the best wal-mart-readily-available-over-the-counter-reasonably-priced-synthetic oil to use?" To that I too would have answered "Syntec 5-50" over any 5-30.

And, no it's a 5w, therefore certified to -30C as is every other 5w-x. Completely safe for winter use. I use it year round in my BMW.
 
Dr. T,

Would you please explain to all of us why you display such a love for 5w50 oils, Syntec 5w50 specifically? I'm very curious.

Thanks in advance,

wavinwayne
 
All I'm saying is we need to get over the misconception of a 5-50. It's not "too thick" per se, it's simply a step-up from the much regarded 5-40 (eg. Delvac) weight. Hence, this grade is now being recommended in high HP applications eg. McClaren Mercedes, etc..

The operative word here is "better". Yes, a 5-40 or 5-50 is better than ANY 30 weight regarless of composition. Now, it may be better than you need, say in a low hp output engine, but that's a different story...

As far as Syntec, it's readily available and cheap compared to boutique oils.
 
Simply because it has more cojones when the going gets tough. It can withstand higher levels of stress/pressure/temperature, etc. when required. Again, usually best for high output, high rpm, high hp, hard driven engines.

Similar to how a 5-30 synthetic is generally regarded to be better than a 5-30 dino, there are no 5-40 or 5-50 synthetics and their counterparts in the past have been 15-40 or 20-50. A 5-40/50 or 15-50 synthetics are much better than these 2 dino grades in all regards.
 
All this hand-wringing over oil viscosity is largely unnecessary. I haven't seen too many engines fail because of improper viscosity, outside of 10w-40s years ago that were overloaded with VIIs. Oil is just that much better now, and engines are lightyears ahead of what they used to be.

I run 5w-50 Castrol year-round in my *Saturn*. That includes outside overnight parking in 0 and sub-0 temperatures. This morning it was 2 degrees Farehneiht. I have over 223,000 miles on my car and counting.

I'm not worried.

You shouldn't be either.

(Oh, and my mileage is no worse than it was when I was running Mobil 1 5w-30. Still get around 35 MPG highway.)
 
Kev:

I'd guess that your decent results are likely a result of the stuff shearing out of grade relatively quickly.

I don't think that the "worry" involved is that this oil will harm the engine, at least in the short term. The real issue is "why bother with it in the first place"? Looking over our UOAs on both this engine in particular, and the Toyotas in general, it's pretty evident that while an xw-50 probably isn't going to quickly harm the engine, it's not going to provide any measurable benefit at all compared to the spec-ed xw-30 oil. So the flip side of your "why worry" question is again, "why bother"? Are you saying that we should just toss out altogether the manufacturers' recommendations for what oil to use in their engines?
 
ekpolk:

Agreed, you *definitely* want to stay within the manufacturer's guidelines during the warranty period. Any excuse they can use to wiggle out of warranty issues you can be sure they'll find and use. (Amazing how many Dodge Caravan drivers "abuse" their automatic transmissions! What is it about Dodge Caravans and abusive drivers?)
 
I once requested that the BMW dealer use the BMW 5-30 synthetic over the BMW 15-40 dino and I agreed to pay the extra amount. Well, to my surprise, on my invoice it listed the 15-40. When I inquired, they insisted that they used the 5-30 synthetic but listed it wrong on the invoice.

Well, I didn't believe them, I had the oil tested by an oil lab and they could only give me a visocity range ie. oil conforms to a 30-40 weight and not an exact viscosity range as listed on the bottle.

So, I doubt the manuf. could prove what oil grade is in the engine. Likewise, I doubt one could have any engine oil related problems during the warranty period.

The only problem I have is with thin lubes and extending OCI's...eg. 10k on 5-20 or even a 5-30 and having the engine last beyond 1-200k mi..
 
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