Car's we'll drive in 2014???

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: ViragoBry

2006 Mazda Mazdaspeed 6 2.3L I4 Direct Injected, Turbocharged, 270hp. EPA 19 mpg. 2009 Mazda 6 "S", 3.7L MPFI V6, 272hp, EPA 20 mpg. I fail to see the free lunch.

2008 Volkswagen GTI DSG 2.0L I4 Direct Injected, Turbocharged, 270hp, 323lbs-ft. In driving that almost entirely consists of city traffic and back-road blitzing I am currently averaging 25.6mpg. I've never been passed on those back-roads, while I do a whole lot of it myself. When cruising down the highway on the cruise control I can average 33+mpg. I can quite clearly see the free lunch, though most poeple only see the backside of it...

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: firemachine69

Every manufacturer that tries to boost without stronger components has always failed miserably. I fail to see how this case will be any different.

Maybe it's the guys you've been following?

 

[BrianWC]

 Originally Posted By: ViragoBry

2006 Mazda Mazdaspeed 6 2.3L I4 Direct Injected, Turbocharged, 270hp. EPA 19 mpg. 2009 Mazda 6 "S", 3.7L MPFI V6, 272hp, EPA 20 mpg. I fail to see the free lunch.

Honestly, I wouldn't call it a "free lunch," especially after driving SAABs... Myself, I'm just pointing out the fact that just b/c a car is turbocharged, it need not be constructed to Ferarri levels... I've never understood the fuel economy merits of turbocharging but I've heard they are there. Don't know... Seems like I heard that part of the reason forced induction will be essential is b/c of the more stringent emissions requirements?

 

[ViragoBry]

I hope, for Mazda's sake that if they do decide to go ahead with a 2nd generation Mazdaspeed 6, that they abandon the turbocharged 4 idea and use the Ford 3.5 or 3.7. People are bending rods right and left with the 2.3, and they're supposedly forged. I think 300+ hp (speculated hp for the next Mazdaspeed 6) is too much stress for a 2.3 / 2.5. Ecoboost 3.5 or a re-tuned 3.7 makes much more sense going forward considering the lousy MPG the 2.3 DISI gets.

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: ViragoBry

I hope, for Mazda's sake that if they do decide to go ahead with a 2nd generation Mazdaspeed 6, that they abandon the turbocharged 4 idea and use the Ford 3.5 or 3.7. People are bending rods right and left with the 2.3, and they're supposedly forged. I think 300+ hp (speculated hp for the next Mazdaspeed 6) is too much stress for a 2.3 / 2.5. Ecoboost 3.5 or a re-tuned 3.7 makes much more sense going forward considering the lousy MPG the 2.3 DISI gets.

I think the problem with the MazdaSpeed engines popping is that guys are trying to uprate an engine which has already been pushed to its design limits by Mazda. You can only do so much with what you're given by the original designers. The Volkswagen 2.0T is an incredibly over-engineered design. It can be uprated, with commercially available parts, to as high as 431hp and 375lbs-ft. I'd want an AWD platform first, though...

 

[BrianWC]

A lot of SAAB drivers run just up to 300 hp on cast internals on the b204/234 engines. Anything over that and a switch to forged is a must. But see, I think we're looking at this wrong b/c we're looking at performance-oriented turbocharging apps. How much different would the equation be when talking about little 1 liter engines with the turbo providing them with just enough pep to get out of their own way???

 

[occupant]

I can remember driving the only turbo'd car I ever owned, a 1987 Chrysler New Yorker. 2.2 Turbo I, it put me back in the seat no problem. But I also got 25-30mpg out of it and could see 34-35 in straight highway driving if I listened careful and kept the turbo from spooling up. If the turbo could be computer controlled and programmed only to come on under more severe needs, it would work well. Restrict it to 4-5psi under half throttle. 9psi at full throttle. Maybe 11psi with full throttle and speed under 45mph. And limit it further at STEADY highway speed. That way the turbo only provides enough boost to feel like a V6, not a V8. Because wow, that Turbo I really had push. I felt like I had a 360 4-barrel under the hood. A 2-barrel 318 feel at WOT would be sufficient.

 

[BrianWC]

Probably a fiarly small turbo. That's the deal with turbos..until recently... Small ones spool up quick then run out of steam just as quick. Big ones get a bit more laggy.

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: BrianWC

A lot of SAAB drivers run just up to 300 hp on cast internals on the b204/234 engines. Anything over that and a switch to forged is a must. But see, I think we're looking at this wrong b/c we're looking at performance-oriented turbocharging apps. How much different would the equation be when talking about little 1 liter engines with the turbo providing them with just enough pep to get out of their own way???

You've hit the nail on the head, so to speak. Anyone else seen or experienced those little Japanese Kei cars, with the 660cc turbocharged engines? They run from the mundane, to the utilitarian and even to the sporty. Here is a little bit about them, for those who've never heard of them.

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: occupant

I can remember driving the only turbo'd car I ever owned, a 1987 Chrysler New Yorker. 2.2 Turbo I, it put me back in the seat no problem. But I also got 25-30mpg out of it and could see 34-35 in straight highway driving if I listened careful and kept the turbo from spooling up. If the turbo could be computer controlled and programmed only to come on under more severe needs, it would work well. Restrict it to 4-5psi under half throttle. 9psi at full throttle. Maybe 11psi with full throttle and speed under 45mph. And limit it further at STEADY highway speed. That way the turbo only provides enough boost to feel like a V6, not a V8. Because wow, that Turbo I really had push. I felt like I had a 360 4-barrel under the hood. A 2-barrel 318 feel at WOT would be sufficient.

Talk about reviving a memory... I once had the good fortune to drive a first generation Dodge Caravan that had been tweaked with a little of that Shelby magic. The K-Car platform made for a relatively easy swap of the original powertrain for a fully built-out Shelby Charger turbocharged 2.2L version. If you think that New Yorker had some push, imagine having a JATO rocket strapped to your backside! HAHAHAHA!!! That thing was insanity wrapped in a monk's robe. I could just imagine an unsuspecting van full of kids, hanging on for dear life and screaming at the tops of their lungs. All while the family dog was losing his lunch on the rear cargo floor...