Sutton has her head up her butt. This is the same thinking that turned a recession into The Great Depression.
CARS Act--cash for clunkers
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Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Sutton has her head up her butt. This is the same thinking that turned a recession into The Great Depression.
You mean protectionist policies?
And promoting unions, and keeping prices and wages high. Sounds recently familiar...
Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Sutton has her head up her butt. This is the same thinking that turned a recession into The Great Depression.
You mean protectionist policies?
And promoting unions, and keeping prices and wages high. Sounds recently familiar...
Originally Posted By: JDD
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I don't like this idea anymore now than I did the last time it was discussed. A lot of perfectly good Blazers, Explorers, and other "out of style" older 'utes could be crushed for this. I know that's their goal, but I don't like it. It's wasteful.
Mine is one of them. I have a 1993 4-door S Blazer. Looking at the recent emissions printout, NOX, HC, and CO are several times higher than my 2005 Sienna or even my 01 Explorer for that matter. NOX is particularly high, and that is what makes ground level ozone, which is dangerous stuff. The Blazer also gets about 15 mpg. The whole point of this bill is to actually replace older cars with new ones and hopefully get the BIG 3 selling cars again. The new car would have to get 30+ mpg highway to get the max $5000. If I took the deal, I would be burning over 50% less gas assuming I would get 25 mpg in mixed driving. Some of the newer cars emit almost no emissions other than water vapor and CO2 (and less of it as well). I can see why this is being seriously considered, although it goes against my liberatarian nature. But seriously, I would probably do it. As far as being wasteful, the whole idea is to recycle cars into new ones that pollute less and get better mpg to help get us off foreign oil. It takes a fraction of the energy to recycle steel than produce new steel. I have never bought a new vehicle from the Big 3, but I would now. I have bought Hondas and Toyotas and VWs new because depreciation was lower. This program would make people consider domestic vehicles that wouldn't before, even though any high mpg car assembled in the US/Canada would qualify. I am particularly intrigued by the new Malibu. I would not even be considering a new car purchase at this time, but this would get me to buy right now for sure.
It takes a lot of energy to crush and recycle all of those vehicles. Plus, not all of the vehicle can be recycled. And then there will be all of the hazardous fluids and parts that must be disposed of, etc. Somebody (us) has to pay for all of that AND the handout to people who use the program. It's a feel good, save the world thing on the surface, but there are a lot of costs to consider.
I have more selfish reasons for not liking it. I like old junkers. They don't make SUVs like they used to. The only new SUVs that compare to an old Explorer or Blazer are 4Runners and Wranglers. Neither one is cheap. I can get an old Explorer that runs and has working 4WD for $1000 though...they make great beaters, hunting vehicles, toys, whatever. I miss my old 1995 Explorer, but the rust was more than I could fix on my own. When I have room for two vehicles, I want to buy another (rust-free this time) and build it up as a trail rig. I might not be able to buy one as a project or get used parts for it though if this CARS Act happens.
Don't forget, we will be footing the bill on this too.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I don't like this idea anymore now than I did the last time it was discussed. A lot of perfectly good Blazers, Explorers, and other "out of style" older 'utes could be crushed for this. I know that's their goal, but I don't like it. It's wasteful.
Mine is one of them. I have a 1993 4-door S Blazer. Looking at the recent emissions printout, NOX, HC, and CO are several times higher than my 2005 Sienna or even my 01 Explorer for that matter. NOX is particularly high, and that is what makes ground level ozone, which is dangerous stuff. The Blazer also gets about 15 mpg. The whole point of this bill is to actually replace older cars with new ones and hopefully get the BIG 3 selling cars again. The new car would have to get 30+ mpg highway to get the max $5000. If I took the deal, I would be burning over 50% less gas assuming I would get 25 mpg in mixed driving. Some of the newer cars emit almost no emissions other than water vapor and CO2 (and less of it as well). I can see why this is being seriously considered, although it goes against my liberatarian nature. But seriously, I would probably do it. As far as being wasteful, the whole idea is to recycle cars into new ones that pollute less and get better mpg to help get us off foreign oil. It takes a fraction of the energy to recycle steel than produce new steel. I have never bought a new vehicle from the Big 3, but I would now. I have bought Hondas and Toyotas and VWs new because depreciation was lower. This program would make people consider domestic vehicles that wouldn't before, even though any high mpg car assembled in the US/Canada would qualify. I am particularly intrigued by the new Malibu. I would not even be considering a new car purchase at this time, but this would get me to buy right now for sure.
It takes a lot of energy to crush and recycle all of those vehicles. Plus, not all of the vehicle can be recycled. And then there will be all of the hazardous fluids and parts that must be disposed of, etc. Somebody (us) has to pay for all of that AND the handout to people who use the program. It's a feel good, save the world thing on the surface, but there are a lot of costs to consider.
I have more selfish reasons for not liking it. I like old junkers. They don't make SUVs like they used to. The only new SUVs that compare to an old Explorer or Blazer are 4Runners and Wranglers. Neither one is cheap. I can get an old Explorer that runs and has working 4WD for $1000 though...they make great beaters, hunting vehicles, toys, whatever. I miss my old 1995 Explorer, but the rust was more than I could fix on my own. When I have room for two vehicles, I want to buy another (rust-free this time) and build it up as a trail rig. I might not be able to buy one as a project or get used parts for it though if this CARS Act happens.
Don't forget, we will be footing the bill on this too.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
It's probably a better way of helping the car industry than just bailing them out.
Like killing it?
It's probably a better way of helping the car industry than just bailing them out.
Like killing it?
I would even find some neighbor kid with a real POS old SUV and trade him my clean, rust-free (yes, you read that right) S-Blazer with only 117,000 miles for his and get his crushed. I would be conflicted crushing one of the few remaining nice old Blazers on the road when there are real POSs out there that would be a better choice.
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Originally Posted By: JDD
Rep. Sutton D-Ohio is sponsoring the CARS Act. Has a pretty good chance of passing. Here is a link: http://sutton.house.gov/news/story.cfm?id=218
Basically $3000 and up to $5000 to have your older car crushed and buy a new high MPG North American made car.
What are your thoughts?
you mean I can buy a Honda Accord made in Ohio that is nonunion and still get the $5k credit? that would help the UAW and the big 3 alot
Rep. Sutton D-Ohio is sponsoring the CARS Act. Has a pretty good chance of passing. Here is a link: http://sutton.house.gov/news/story.cfm?id=218
Basically $3000 and up to $5000 to have your older car crushed and buy a new high MPG North American made car.
What are your thoughts?
you mean I can buy a Honda Accord made in Ohio that is nonunion and still get the $5k credit? that would help the UAW and the big 3 alot
Originally Posted By: Tempest
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Good point. And many low wage workers do not work close to home, at least around here. They don't have easy access to mass transit. Even people who do are often stuck with a bad, outdated system.
Sure, we're not "entitled" to cheap cars, but our country has essentially been designed around the car. That's how people get around here.
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Good point. And many low wage workers do not work close to home, at least around here. They don't have easy access to mass transit. Even people who do are often stuck with a bad, outdated system.
Sure, we're not "entitled" to cheap cars, but our country has essentially been designed around the car. That's how people get around here.
The only thing I don't like about it, is that the new car has to get at least 27mpg hwy. A new vette is rated at 26mpg hwy even though people routinly get close to 30mpg.
you could make good bucks importing old cars from Mexico...
Originally Posted By: oilyriser
you could make good bucks importing old cars from Mexico...
Yeah, a bunch of the cars that end up there from the US would come back.
I've seen convoys of old vehicles with other old vehicles in tow headed south just about every time I drive from NC to AL (a couple times a year). My best guess is that they are going to Mexico. Usually it's groups of two or three with something like a 1990s F-150 towing an Explorer, Blazer, Caravan, whatever else will sell in Mexico. If not that, then I guess eljefino has relatives in the South somewhere.
you could make good bucks importing old cars from Mexico...
Yeah, a bunch of the cars that end up there from the US would come back.
I've seen convoys of old vehicles with other old vehicles in tow headed south just about every time I drive from NC to AL (a couple times a year). My best guess is that they are going to Mexico. Usually it's groups of two or three with something like a 1990s F-150 towing an Explorer, Blazer, Caravan, whatever else will sell in Mexico. If not that, then I guess eljefino has relatives in the South somewhere.
Insurance companies will like this legislation. They always like to shaft you when you get a newer car, even if it's the same make & model and liability-only insurance. Can you say AIG?
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Why should the poor have cars? Is there anything about a right to own a car in the US Constitution? Those who can afford cars should be able to buy them. Oh wait, in that case half the people probably shouldn't have cars. Imagine how much better traffic would be!
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
Why should the poor have cars? Is there anything about a right to own a car in the US Constitution? Those who can afford cars should be able to buy them. Oh wait, in that case half the people probably shouldn't have cars. Imagine how much better traffic would be!
Originally Posted By: Tempest
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
But that is compensated by the increase in job opportunities. I don't think a clunker's price would go up enough to justify being crushed. There are enough clunkers going down to Mexico and resold that the ones worthy for US market won't be affected much.
This act will be discriminatory to the poor because all of the cheap used cars might dry up, or at least raise prices, so they will not be able to afford a car of their own.
Notice the big push for mass transit...
But that is compensated by the increase in job opportunities. I don't think a clunker's price would go up enough to justify being crushed. There are enough clunkers going down to Mexico and resold that the ones worthy for US market won't be affected much.
So it's just being done as a jobs program for bureaucrats, but won't have any real impact?
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
If not that, then I guess eljefino has relatives in the South somewhere.
LOL I'm as Hispanic as French Fries are from Paris. (cursed with a gramattically incorrect pet name)
As alluded to, someone could buy an uncrushed beater, turn around, trade it in, and get a $4000 rebate on a new car paid for by Uncle Sam. What a horrid waste of money!
Back when the firestone tires were getting recalled, junkyards around here were digging through their huge tire piles, mounting the tires on an explorer, bringing it in for the recall, then reselling the brand new replacement tires. They would p00p themselves if they could do the same with cars.
Think about it... if the gov't gives you $8000 to buy a house (wait, they do), and your buying competition has the same $8000... the price of that house goes up by $8000! Who benefits? The people who already own houses.
This bailout will benefit those, who for whatever reason, own a large supply of gas guzzlers in their back forty... and won't be out on the market trying to snap them up and flip them to the gov't. If they're ghetto poor and can't buy new it doesn't matter b/c they could get three large for each vehicle, allowing room for profit for the middleman to whom they sold it.
Now there are those who like huge cars, and this being a car site I can't disparage that choice in lifestyle... but should we as a society allow the moral ill of rewarding those who made the gas guzzling decision?
I may sound like a broken record... broken record... broken record... but if we doubled the gas tax but rebated a gallon a day (so it's tax free) it would make people think when they crossed that threshold. Rig the rebates so if you're driving without a license/insurance etc... no rebate for you.
If not that, then I guess eljefino has relatives in the South somewhere.
LOL I'm as Hispanic as French Fries are from Paris. (cursed with a gramattically incorrect pet name)
As alluded to, someone could buy an uncrushed beater, turn around, trade it in, and get a $4000 rebate on a new car paid for by Uncle Sam. What a horrid waste of money!
Back when the firestone tires were getting recalled, junkyards around here were digging through their huge tire piles, mounting the tires on an explorer, bringing it in for the recall, then reselling the brand new replacement tires. They would p00p themselves if they could do the same with cars.
Think about it... if the gov't gives you $8000 to buy a house (wait, they do), and your buying competition has the same $8000... the price of that house goes up by $8000! Who benefits? The people who already own houses.
This bailout will benefit those, who for whatever reason, own a large supply of gas guzzlers in their back forty... and won't be out on the market trying to snap them up and flip them to the gov't. If they're ghetto poor and can't buy new it doesn't matter b/c they could get three large for each vehicle, allowing room for profit for the middleman to whom they sold it.
Now there are those who like huge cars, and this being a car site I can't disparage that choice in lifestyle... but should we as a society allow the moral ill of rewarding those who made the gas guzzling decision?
I may sound like a broken record... broken record... broken record... but if we doubled the gas tax but rebated a gallon a day (so it's tax free) it would make people think when they crossed that threshold. Rig the rebates so if you're driving without a license/insurance etc... no rebate for you.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
the price of that house goes up by $8000! Who benefits? The people who already own houses.
Banks own lots of houses these days, don't they?
the price of that house goes up by $8000! Who benefits? The people who already own houses.
Banks own lots of houses these days, don't they?
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