Cancer and Farah Fawcett

[GROUCHO MARX]

 Originally Posted By: jaj

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

Billions of dollars have gotten us to the point where if your body can endure copious amounts of toxic chemotherapy, you may have a chance of surviving. Pardon me if I'm not impressed.

A half-billion dollars is the current cost for getting a drug for pretty much any major disease from a lab bench to the bedside, and most of the cost is putting together and delivering the (literally) one-container-load of documents required to support FDA approval. And, you have to think of FDA approval not as a public health and safety issue but as lawyer-proofing. Of the drug candidate compounds that start the journey, maybe one in 100 finishes. If one fails at the $450 million point, just at the threshold of approval, and many do, then most of the money is down the drain and it's back to the drawing board. Nobody is trying to impress you. It's just that this stuff is really hard and it costs a lot of money. If you are prepared for a lower standard of testing and quality, approval could be cheaper and there would be more drugs on the market faster. But the money-grabbing legal vultures that pillage drug companies when a flaw goes undetected, for instance VIOXX, take away any urgency that companies and the FDA might have to try anything that's not perfect (and totally lawyer-proof).

I don't care what the drug companies are spending. They're in business to make money. Business plans fail. I care about what's been promised from research if people DONATE their own money. Those promises are bull and offering people false hope is one of the worse sins that can be committed.

 

[Tempest]

 Quote:

I care about what's been promised from research if people DONATE their own money. Those promises are bull and offering people false hope is one of the worse sins that can be committed.

Do you have an example? I'm not familiar with this.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

American cancer society? 702 million dollars in gross receipts in fiscal 2007.

 

[Tempest]

Are they wasting money? It's pretty hard to put a dollar amount to something that has never been done before. It wouldn't surprise me if there is some corruption, but it's not widely reported.

 

[jaj]

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

I don't care what the drug companies are spending. They're in business to make money. Business plans fail. I care about what's been promised from research if people DONATE their own money. Those promises are bull and offering people false hope is one of the worse sins that can be committed.

I've set up meat-packing plants beside the fields full of cancer-research sacred cows. I've been a board member on the largest cancer charity in the country I live in, one that raises more than twice the amount that the ACS raises and every penny from private citizens. I've been a party to a complete restructuring of how research is done and how researchers are held accountable. What have you done? It's your turn to impress me.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

 Originally Posted By: jaj

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

I don't care what the drug companies are spending. They're in business to make money. Business plans fail. I care about what's been promised from research if people DONATE their own money. Those promises are bull and offering people false hope is one of the worse sins that can be committed.

I've set up meat-packing plants beside the fields full of cancer-research sacred cows. I've been a board member on the largest cancer charity in the country I live in, one that raises more tha twice the amount that the ACS raises and every penny from private citizens. I've been a party to a complete restructuring of how research is done and how researchers are held accountable. What have you done? It's your turn to impress me.

Why do you think this is personal?

 

[jaj]

I've lost family members, I've lost friends, I've lost employees. I can't even count them any more. Why would you expect it to be anything but personal?

 

[Tempest]

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6495

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

 Originally Posted By: Tempest

Are they wasting money? It's pretty hard to put a dollar amount to something that has never been done before. It wouldn't surprise me if there is some corruption, but it's not widely reported.

I haven't said it's corrupt. I just doubt it's efficient. I give my money to hospices. They provide something that's tangible. They help people in my community deal with the real life effects of cancer. I believe they make more of an impact. But I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

 Originally Posted By: Tempest

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6495

Tempest, I guess you answered your own question.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

 Originally Posted By: jaj

I've lost family members, I've lost friends, I've lost employees. I can't even count them any more. Why would you expect it to be anything but personal?

I guess I'm impressed that you're one of the few people in this world to lose a loved one to cancer.

 

[Shannow]

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

I give my money to hospices. They provide something that's tangible. They help people in my community deal with the real life effects of cancer. I believe they make more of an impact. But I guess I'm not entitled to an opinion.

Would have been handy to have such in this town. MIL spent her final days in a local private hospital...they kicked here out after 28 days, because the insurance company was going to cut the $890 per day to 90% of $890. Doctor had to diagnose her as suffering "dehydration" to allow her to be re-admitted...to the hottest, most remote room in the place, while the nurses wouldn't change the sheets, nor check the pain machines. Somewhere where she could have left with some dignity would have been a blessing.

 

[jaj]

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

I guess I'm impressed that you're one of the few people in this world to lose a loved one to cancer.

Have you actually done anything or just complained? A simple yes or no will do. I did something. It took 15 years. Nothing's stopping you.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Yeah, I had my entire colon removed on September 26, 2001 due to cancer.

 

[jaj]

 Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX

Yeah, I had my entire colon removed on September 26, 2001 due to cancer.

Then your knowledge of cancer is far more personal than mine. I respect that. Your reason for wanting to do something is even more concrete than mine is.

 

[Gary Allan]

 Originally Posted By: Tempest

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6495

Organizational Efficiency Program Expenses 70.4%* Administrative Expenses 9.3% Fundraising Expenses 20.2% Fundraising Efficiency $0.18 *Glossary Program Expenses: This measure reflects what percent of its total budget a charity spends on the programs and services it exists to deliver. Dividing a charity's program expenses by its total functional expenses yields this percentage. Score = Raw Score x 10 Rationale behind score adjustments: Program Expenses < 33.3%: Our data shows that 7 out of 10 charities we've evaluated spend at least 75% of their budget on the programs and services they exist to provide. And 9 out of 10 spend at least 65%. We believe that those spending less than a third of their budget on program expenses are simply not living up to their missions. Charities demonstrating such gross inefficiency receive zero points for their overall organizational efficiency score. Deficit Adjustment While charities are not created to make a profit, they should not outspend their means. When a charity runs a combined deficit over time, we adjust its efficiency score downward. We do this by comparing its average annual deficit to its total functional expenses for the most recent year, and we then deduct that percentage from the charity's program expenses percentage. Yet we have no clearly defined programs. I get a call from the YMCA looking for a donation for the "disadvantaged" to pay for programs and services for them. I ask, are these revenues going to already employed staff? Are these programs occupying already heated and furnished rooms? Are these programs using existing resources that are already paid for with current membership fees? Try that next time you're asked for a donation. You will likely not get an answer. That's the type of "giving" a non-profit organization does. Here is the invisible elephant in the room at all of these types of things. It's is ONLY the giver who is expected to sacrifice for the "good and noble endeavor". Do the lab techs work for less money since this is a "good and noble endeavor"? Do the number crunchers that tabulate the data? The visiting nurses and other care givers? The physicians? The administrators? I doubt it. Where's their commitment to this "good and noble endeavor for the betterment of humankind"? When I hear "your dollar will go directly to vital research" ..I know the drill. Vital research seems to cost quite a bit and keeps costing more. You create an institution that needs to be fed.

 

[Shannow]

Scariest part of the industry is to ask the question. "What would happen if one of the researchers found a cure (or at least a 98% effective preventative) that was already growing in 90 percent of the backyards of the country ?" Firstly, would they look there ? Secondly, just say they did find such. Would they give each other high fives for a job well done, and close down ?

 

[Tempest]

They would find some other cause of the moment to fight for.