Can I use Idemitsu PSF in my 97 Buick Park Ave?

Carlostrece

Carlostrece

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I'm going to flush and replace PSF in a 97 Buick Park Ave, 2011 Hyundai Elantra, & 2003 Honda CR-V. I compared datasheets of every brand of synthetic PSF that I could find looking for the best that I can afford. I posted specs for some brands below. There wasn't room to post them all.

Note: Idemitsu makes Honda OEM oil. They're the same oil (according to a CR-V forum), but I can get a better price ($4.39 per 12 oz bottle) in Idemitsu brandname from Rockauto.

I like Amsoil PSF and Idemitsu PSF specs very much. They both have the higher 100KV cSt than other brands, except Lucas. Only Lucas 100KV cSt is (slightly) higher, but Lucas pour point isn't nearly as good as Amsoil & Idemitsu.

Amsoil & Idemitsu have impressive specs. Of the 2, Idemitsu is slightly more impressive while costing ⅖ as much! i.e. - Idemitsu costs ⅗ less money per ounce than Amsoil!

According to approvals on bottles...
Amsoil is approved for Buick & Hyundai.
Idemitsu is approved for Honda & Hyundai.

So based on official approvals I could use Idemitsu in Honda & Hyundai.

Could I safely use Idemitsu in my 97 Buick? Idemitsu isn't approved for GM. However, Idemitsu exceeds the AC Delco specs by a wide margin. Idemitsu has excellent specs that are similar (slightly superior) to Amsoil. The viscosity at 100KV is similar to Amsoil & Lucas.

If I could safely use Idemitsu in my Buick, then I could use it in all 3 cars and save money.

Here are PSF data sheet specs to compare:
For cSt the KV40 listed first, KV100 listed second.

🫥 AC Delco OE cSt ?, ?, VI 150, FP347, PP -44F
😒 Service Pro Synthetic (syn) cSt ?, 6.25, VI ?, FP 300F.
🤮 Oreilly MasterPro cSt 43.5, 6, VI 37, FP 280F, PP -6F. Allegedly GM, Hyundai, & Honda approved, but I don't believe it. $17 qt.
🙂 Autozone Shop Pro (syn) made by Lubeguard. Same thing as Lubeguard Complete.
🙂 Lubeguard Complete (syn) cSt 29.6, 5.34, VI 114, FP 406F, PP -33F, $17 qt.
🫥 Valvoline Pro Series (syn blend) cSt 50, 7, VI ?, FP 390, PP -44F.
🫥 Maxlife (syn blend) cSt 50, 7, VI ?, FP 390, PP -44F, $10 qt.
🫥 Valvoline SynPower (syn) cSt 18.7, 6, VI 313, FP 313F, PP -71F
😘 Lucas cSt 38.05, 7.5, VI 169, FP 460F, PP 0F. $8 to $9 qt. Hyundai & GM approved.
😘 Triax Asian Vehicle (syn) cST 32.6, 7, VI 180, FP 428F, PP -65F, $14 qt. Hyundai & Honda approved.
😘Triax Powerfluid 450 (syn) cSt 19.3, 6.2, VI 313, FP 320F, PP -58F.
😘😘 Triax OEM Grade (syn) cSt 32.6, 7, VI 180, FP 428F, PP -65F, $15 qt. Hyundai & GM approved.
Note: I'm aware that Triax is offbrand not trusted by some at BITOG. I rated it based on its claimed specs. I don't claim to know how valid the claims are.
😘 Redline (syn) cSt 31, 7, VI 199, FP 455F, PP -58F, $15.49 to $16 qt. GM approved.
😘😘 Amsoil (syn) cSt 32.3, 7.2, VI 194, FP 439F, PP -65F, $17 qt. Hyundai & GM approved.
😘😘 Idemitsu (syn) cSt 38.3, 7.65, VI 174, FP 423F, PP -65F. Honda & Hyundai approved.

When I switched my Buick (years ago) from AC Delco OEM to Lucas, I noticed an improvement with easier to turn steering wheel in parking lots and less pump moaning and groaning, and no more squealing.

Lucas has KV100 cSt 7.5, Amsoil 7.2, Idemitsu 7.65. Those are the 3 thickest at KV100 that I've found. Amsoil & Idemitsu also have a good viscosity & pour point in cold weather too.

Idemitsu is approved for all Asian cars, including Honda. It's not approved for GM or Buick, but could I safely use Idemitsu in my 97 Buick Park Ave?
 
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Jetronic said:
https://lubricants.catalog.totalenergies.com/catalog-sg/en_SG/m8b_fluide-da

That's what I use.

PAO fluid. Seems similar to the Valvoline Synpower fluid.

I don't know why you would focus at KV100? I'd want the KV40 as low as possible, and certainly the viscosity below that temperature.

New fluid vs used almost always results in less noise and easier steering.
Click to expand...

also want to add, this fluid viscosity only raises to 1050 cP at -40°C (brookfield viscosity), that will be wonderfull in winter.
 
Fwiw I whatever used leftover atf for the longest time and never had an issue. Recently switched to hm psf to slow a leak down after 300k which it did but I doubt high mileage atf wouldn't have done the same so I think I'll use castrol transmax high mileage atf which is an older dex 3 formulation and has a kv100 of 8 since I used it in my 4L with great results last time.
 
JavierH19 said:
Fwiw I whatever used leftover atf for the longest time and never had an issue. Recently switched to hm psf to slow a leak down after 300k which it did but I doubt high mileage atf wouldn't have done the same so I think I'll use castrol transmax high mileage atf which is an older dex 3 formulation and has a kv100 of 8 since I used it in my 4L with great results last time.
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That’s why I used ZF8 instead of Mopar - so I could buy more than a quart a month - and it not get too old 😷
 
JavierH19 said:
Fwiw I whatever used leftover atf for the longest time and never had an issue. Recently switched to hm psf to slow a leak down after 300k which it did but I doubt high mileage atf wouldn't have done the same so I think I'll use castrol transmax high mileage atf which is an older dex 3 formulation and has a kv100 of 8 since I used it in my 4L with great results last time.
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I don't know if this is correct info, but I've read in a few places online that using ATF in a PS system that was designed for PSF can result in (eventual) viscosity loss due to ATF sheardown, and seal leaks due to ATF having a lack of, or incompatible, seal conditioners.

I wonder if that might have contributed to you developing a PSF leak?
 
Carlostrece said:
I don't know if this is correct info, but I've read elsewhere online that using ATF in a PS system that's designed for PSF can result in (eventual) viscosity loss due to sheardown and seal leaks due to a lack of, or incompatible, seal conditioners.

I wonder if that might have contributed to you developing a PSF leak?
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Both have similar seal and gasket compositions. Atf is just better psf with a better base stock for the most part and extra additives. An original system starting to leak after 300k isn't a surprise to anyone. Now if I used ATF and it leaked ar below 100k miles then I'd attribute it to that. With regular non HM psf the same very likely would have happened.
 
Jetronic said:
https://lubricants.catalog.totalenergies.com/catalog-sg/en_SG/m8b_fluide-da

That's what I use.

PAO fluid. Seems similar to the Valvoline Synpower fluid.

I don't know why you would focus at KV100? I'd want the KV40 as low as possible, and certainly the viscosity below that temperature.

New fluid vs used almost always results in less noise and easier steering.
Click to expand...
I was having good results with Lucas in my Buick for many years. Much better than AC Delco.

Lucas was good until it got old, but now it's 14 years with 45K miles on it. My Buick PS pump is starting to moan a little in parking lots right after cold starts (and it's not even winter time). So it needs new fluid.

Lucas KV100 cSt is 7.5 and that worked great for 12 years in Buick. So I want to stay with a similar cSt because I know it works well in my Buick. Amoil KV100 cSt is 7.2, Idemitsu 7.65. Those are similar thickness at full op temp as Lucas.

Honda prefers a 7.65 (or similar) cSt @ KV100. Hyundai (based on its approvals for many PSF brands) works with a wide range.

As for KV40 and pour point, Amsoil and Idemitsu (and several others) are superior to Lucas. I'll take all the cold weather capability I can get, but it's not crucial for me. My climate has never gotten colder than 8F in my life. It rarely gets colder than 25F. Also, my car is usually parked in an underground garage that never gets colder than 55F.

Idemitsu is one of the best synthetic PSF fluids IMO, and costs less at RockAuto than Amsoil. $4.39 per 12 oz bottle. I can replace PSF in 3 cars (Buick, Hyundai, Honda) with Idemitsu.
 
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If no one has technical objections to me using Idemitsu PSF (same thing as Honda PSF) in my 97 Buick Park Ave, then I will place an order at RockAuto.
 
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My math was off earlier. Idemitsu PSF is approx 30% lower cost than Amsoil PSF when looking at Rockauto price for Idemitsu.

Here's the cost comparison breakdown. I love pinching pennies. More for fun than necessity these days. Price comparisons below include shipping & tax.

I need PSF for Buick, Hyundai & Honda. Officially the Buick can use Amsoil, the Honda can use Idemitsu, and Hyundai can use either. Unofficially all 3 cars can use Idemitsu. Possibly all 3 could use Amsoil.

For enough PSF to flush and replace I have the following options:

3 cars Idemitsu from Rockauto $102

2 cars Idemitsu from Rockauto $74
1 car Amsoil $56 (five 16 oz bottles)
===
$130

1 car Idemitsu from Rockauto $42
2 cars Amsoil $102 (ten 16 oz bottles)
===
$144

1 car Idemitsu from Rockauto $42
2 cars Amsoil $112 (case 12 + 1 bottle 16 oz)
(13 bottles enables free shipping from Amsoil)
===
$154

Prices include tax & shipping
 
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Lubegard and Lubegard PS fluid have helped quiet several PS pumps over the past few years. Lastly was my new to me 94 F350s. I would use that if that is your goal. Another option is Maxlife ATF with a couple of ounces of Lubegard Red, which helped my '93 C1500s quiet it down to nothing. It was getting very noisy and now not a peep.
 
Jetronic said:
https://lubricants.catalog.totalenergies.com/catalog-sg/en_SG/m8b_fluide-da

That's what I use.

PAO fluid. Seems similar to the Valvoline Synpower fluid.

I don't know why you would focus at KV100? I'd want the KV40 as low as possible, and certainly the viscosity below that temperature.

New fluid vs used almost always results in less noise and easier steering.
Click to expand...
I looked at Total Energies PSF tech data sheet. I looks way better than Valvoline Synpower to me. The TE physical characteristics looks similar to Pentosin to my half educated eye. Good stuff for sure, but not what I was looking for. The op temp viscosity is lower than I'm looking for for Buick and way to low for Honda.

I'm looking for a highend PSF that works well in Buick, Honda, and Hyundai. Amsoil probably qualifies even though it doesn't claim to be approved for Honda. Idemitsu qualifies (according to several BITOG members) even though it doesn't claim to be approved for Buick.
 
wlk said:
Lubegard and Lubegard PS fluid have helped quiet several PS pumps over the past few years. Lastly was my new to me 94 F350s. I would use that if that is your goal. Another option is Maxlife ATF with a couple of ounces of Lubegard Red, which helped my '93 C1500s quiet it down to nothing. It was getting very noisy and now not a peep.
Click to expand...
What I said in post 14 about Total Energies also applies to Lubeguard Complete PSF. Though even moreso as Lubeguard Complete is even thinner at op temp than TE. Look at their data sheets, or look at Lubeguard data I posted in OP that came from data sheet and see data I posted for others.

Lubeguard is thinner than I want for Buick at full op temp and way too thin for Honda at full op temp even though it claims approval for both.

I'm looking for 1 oil that's good for Buick, Honda, and Hyundai. A viscosity that's appropriate for both Buick & Honda is part of what I'm looking for, as well as seal compatibility with both. Hyundai isn't picky and is officially approved for anything that's approved for either Buick or Honda.
 
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Carlostrece said:
What I said in post 14 about Total Energies also applies to Lubeguard Complete PSF. Though even moreso as Lubeguard Complete is even thinner at op temp than TE. Look at their data sheets, or look at Lubeguard data I posted in OP that came from data sheet and see data I posted for others.

Lubeguard is thinner than I want for Buick at full op temp and way too thin for Honda at full op temp even though it claims approval for both.

I'm looking for 1 oil that's good for Buick, Honda, and Hyundai. A viscosity that's appropriate for both Buick & Honda is part of what I'm looking for, as well as seal compatibility with both. Hyundai isn't picky and is officially approved for anything that's approved for either Buick or Honda.
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Maybe thinner, but Lubegard is excellent fluid, and I have it in my F350, Impala, Element, and my kids' Silverado. It smoothed out the notchiness in the Element and Impala, and like i said, quieted the F350. I wouldn't let the cst's sway you but good luck in your search. Keep us posted on how it goes
 
wlk said:
Maybe thinner, but Lubegard is excellent fluid, and I have it in my F350, Impala, Element, and my kids' Silverado. It smoothed out the notchiness in the Element and Impala, and like i said, quieted the F350. I wouldn't let the cst's sway you but good luck in your search. Keep us posted on how it goes
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It's quite a lot thinner, but I believe Lubeguard is good. However, it's not what I'm looking for. Thanks for your helpful intent.
 
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