Can a Roadforce Balance tell if tire or wheel is bad?

[Navi]

Im having a vibration issue and the dealer told me they Roadforced it and either the wheel is bad or the tire. I think its really the ring and pinion gear in the differential.

If I take this to a tireshop and get it put on a RoadForce machine what can they tell me? Csn they narrow it down to the tire or wheel exactly?

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Can you be a bit more specific?

It would be unusual for a R&P to cause a "vibration" ( noise yes)

 

[Navi]

It starts vibrating and rumbleing at 60mph...gets most intense at 70 and is smooth past 80. Dealer replaced driveshaft and right front axle....still vibrates. The tires are newish with just a few thousand on them. They have literally been Roadforce balanced 3 times.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

That's not a R&P so that can be eliminated.

Vibrating where? ( where do you feel it? seat or wheel?)

 

[Boomer]

Had this same issue a bout 9 years ago. Bought a new set of Cooper tires and they were mounted and balanced. Had a vibration that started at about 60 and ended around 70 (almost). Took it back, rebalanced, same thing. Took it back again and watched. One tire was out of round and you could see it as they spun it. Replaced the tire and all was well.

 

[Navi]

I can describe it as a deep low rumble. Its a fast rumble at 300 beats a minute. I cant feel it in the seat or in the wheel. It took place after the tires were replaced. The rumble sounds just like when I open a rear window at highway speed. Its coming from the front.

 

[ulflyer]

AFAIK, a Roadforce with knowledgeable operator can tell if tire or wheel is out of round. Have you rotated the wheels and it still does that?

 

[CapriRacer]

Yes, a RoadForce Machine can tell if a vibration is the tire or the wheel.

How? It measures - oh, let's call it runout - and gives it to you in the form of force (pounds).

First it will give you the assembly value - the tire and wheel as a unit. For large SUV tires, values over 30# are too high, but for tiny microcars, values over 10# are too high.

There is an additional procedure where they can measure the wheel (sort of) and give individual values - one for the tire and one for the wheel. For wheels values over 15# are bad. For tires, see what I said above for the assembly!

- BUT -

I think you are describing a noise, not a tactile vibration. A RoadForce machine will not be able to detect something that high in the frequency range - at least not with the knowledge most techs have about the RoadForce Mahine.

And since you seem to think it is in the front, swap the tires front to rear, and see if the noise changes location.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

I can describe it as a deep low rumble. Its a fast rumble at 300 beats a minute. I cant feel it in the seat or in the wheel. It took place after the tires were replaced. The rumble sounds just like when I open a rear window at highway speed. Its coming from the front.

This is beginning to sound like something other than a tire problem.

I agree with Capri, do a rotate and if nothing changes, its not the tire/rim combo

 

[Navi]

I was on my way to the tire store, but then I decided that I have a full size spare and decided to just do it in my driveway. First, I test drove the vehicle on the interstate at 70mph. I noted the right front seemed to rumble the most. While I was driving I felt the dash on the right side and it was vibrating. Next I went home and changed the tire in my driveway. Another test drive and the rumble on the right side was gone...but there was still a rumble on the left side.

Thus I came to the conclusion I got sold some bad tires off of Ebay. These tires are probably out of round and causing the vibration. However, I am stuck with the bill on this one because the Ebay retailer is now in the clear. Purchased these in December and didnt use them until recently.

So Ive learned a hard lesson. This time I went online and made an appointment with an actual tire store. I will let them acquire the tires and do all the work. That way if something goes wrong this time they are stuck with the situation. Also wont be ordering these Yokohamas again. I am going with Continental TrueContact Tour.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

So Ive learned a hard lesson. This time I went online and made an appointment with an actual tire store. I will let them acquire the tires and do all the work. That way if something goes wrong this time they are stuck with the situation. Also wont be ordering these Yokohamas again. I am going with Continental TrueContact Tour.

Before you finally do, it might not hurt to break the two down and re mount them 90 degrees biased from their original install point just to see.

 

[ollie]

Years ago i would mount and balance my own car tires. Anymore it's so much simpler and accurate to have the tire store do it. And the warranty they give is amazing. Free balancing and damage replacement for the life of the tread. I'm honestly not sure how accurate a spin balance machine is on determining a bad tire or rim. I would imagine that along with a close visual is the safe bet.

 

[Navi]

The dealership did spend a lot of time on this issue. They even replaced some parts which should not have been replaced like the driveshaft and right front axle...interestingly thats where I heard the most rumble from. Im going to do that side to side switch of the tires just to make sure. The dealerships conclusion was it was the tires.

Yeah I wouldnt order anything from mail-order or do it myself. If anything goes wrong its on them and not me. In this situation there isnt anything I can do. The guy I got it from on Ebay is not an authorized dealer. He probably bought irregular or rejects and sold them as new.

 

[ollie]

And Navi I'm sure you know that Ebay has a very hit/miss outcome to anything purchased. I'm happy you got this sorted.

 

[cos]

Navi,

What make/model of vehicle?
Did you buy it new or used?
Mileage?
Accident history?

 

[JHZR2]

I had issues with vibration on my 350SD. When I took it for roadforce, they told me the amount of force or weight, in pounds, per wheel. If you’ve done this before, is one wheel different than the others?

Id recommend that you use a vibration analysis app on your phone, and capture data at 60MPH, and report it back here. What you see will inform the cause.

 

[George Bynum]

Id recommend that you use a vibration analysis app on your phone, and capture data at 60MPH, and report it back here. What you see will inform the cause.

WOW, never seen those before ... Apple App Store has many; which have you tried and do you like? Do you know of any that can export data in a common format, csv or spreadsheet? I do some industrial data acquisition and analysis and my application can import either of those easily.

 

[JHZR2]

WOW, never seen those before ... Apple App Store has many; which have you tried and do you like? Do you know of any that can export data in a common format, csv or spreadsheet? I do some industrial data acquisition and analysis and my application can import either of those easily.

I use one called VibrationAnalysis (all one word). There does seem to be a way to send data, but I’ve never used it. In fact, I’ve never even messed with it so much as to change the measurement axis. I just use it, when considered with a naturally easy speed to calculate (eg 60mph) and the tire revs/mile, one can calculate the frequency per second that one would feel a tire wobble. It works well for me. I actually have some interesting other results I need to write a post about though... I think related to tire flat spotting.

 

[Navi]

Well, I had ordered 4 Continental LX25 tires on the Mavis website. My local dealer tried to bait&switch me. They called me up the day of the installation and said the LX25 had been discontinued. Told him to forget it, he lied and I put a 1 star review on Google. Their regional manager tried to call me 3 times...hung up once and I didnt answer followup calls. I was done with them. Im not changing the one star review. Ordered tires on TireRack and they came in 2 days. Had a local installer do them with a roadforce balance. Ultimately paid more than Mavis price but didnt seem like Mavis wanted to sell me tires but play games.

The vibration is now gone and the LX25s are living up to the great reviews. Ride quality went up a few notches.

Big mistake getting tires from Ebay. Also big mistake not buying a major brand like Michelin, Goodyear, Continental/General... Lesson learned.

The only issue now is the tire shop didnt reset my tpms sensors but I will do that myself. Mechanics around here are horrible.

 

[HangFire]

AFAIK, a Roadforce with knowledgeable operator can tell if tire or wheel is out of round. Have you rotated the wheels and it still does that?

Unless "the printer is broken" and the reply to "what were the outputs" was a giant shrug.

So next time I go Roadforce balance, I'm asking if the printer is working and I'm getting all the specs out of it, or just their word for it. At a different shop. (This happened a few months ago and yes I'm still pissed about it.)