Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30?

[Silver]

I have noticed this too with some oils, although my findings are even more strange.

I recently posted about a 0W being thicker at 100C than a 5W for the same exact line of oil and it begged the question, why would the mfg even bother with a 5W when their 0W provides superior cold starts due to thinner 40C, AND has a thicker 100C temp as well. The names on the bottles sometimes don't correlate in a relative fashion when looking at the actual specs of the oils in the same brand and line of oils. I probably know the answer - because of manuals calling for 5W and not 0W but it seems the 0W came along after the 5W with superior additives and made the 5W technically redundant.

For further amusement look across brands. For example compare a Pennzoil Plat or Ultra to a Castrol Edge Titanium. Way thin versus way thick, same 'grades'!

 

[CT8]

Shearing between the parts .

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by John344
Greetings everyone,

While I was reading the specifications of Mobil1 5W-30 ESP and Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. I noticed that Mobil 1 Viscosity at 100C is higher than Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.

So sometimes the weight is doesn't necessarily means that the oil is heavier I have to check for Viscosity too?

Thanks for the info in advance

Everything you wanted to know about the viscosity of the commercial oils and more:

Latest base-oil viscosity and viscosity-index improver (VII) table with major enhancements

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Silver
I have noticed this too with some oils, although my findings are even more strange.
I recently posted about a 0W being thicker at 100C than a 5W for the same exact line of oil and it begged the question, why would the mfg even bother with a 5W when their 0W provides superior cold starts due to thinner 40C, AND has a thicker 100C temp as well. The names on the bottles sometimes don't correlate in a relative fashion when looking at the actual specs of the oils in the same brand and line of oils. I probably know the answer - because of manuals calling for 5W and not 0W but it seems the 0W came along after the 5W with superior additives and made the 5W technically redundant.
For further amusement look across brands. For example compare a Pennzoil Plat or Ultra to a Castrol Edge Titanium. Way thin versus way thick, same 'grades'!

40C is 104F...not very cold!
5WXX is tested for cold cranking at -30C (-22F) and for pumpability at -35C (-31F).
0WXX is tested for cold cranking at -35C (still -31F) and for pumpability at -40C (-40F, easy to remember).
That's all you really need to know about 0WXX vs. 5WXX oil...it really has nothing to do with 40C and 100C performance.

https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Silver
I probably know the answer - because of manuals calling for 5W and not 0W but it seems the 0W came along after the 5W with superior additives and made the 5W technically redundant.

Yes. Note that Mobil is one of the few companies that expressly acknowledges that in their marketing. If your vehicle calls for an SN/GF-5 5w-30 or 5w-20, they will stand behind 0w-30 or 0w-20, respectively, in service.

 

[John344]

Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


So should I consider 5W30 Mobil1 ESP is better than 10W-30 Pennzoil?

 

[Garak]

You can consider it thicker, but do not that 10w-30 Pennzoil and 5w-30 Mobil 1 ESP are not exactly targeting the same vehicles and have a different set of specifications, so, different would be a more apt way to put it.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


So should I consider 5W30 Mobil1 ESP is better than 10W-30 Pennzoil?

What is application?
Your question about oils in first thread are very common here.
Mobil1 you asking about is made for European vehicles and some Japanese and American vehicles running new generation of diesel engines. Generally, european engines are running on thicker, and more sophisticated oils.
Just because that Mobi1 is 5W30 does not mean it will shear down faster than 10W30, and that is because those ACEA A3/B3 B4, or C3 (like this Mobil1) are made from more sophisticated base oils. By that thoery, 0W40 oils should shear down much faster than 5W30 and especially 10W30. However, I ran several UOA on VW CC and VW Tiguan using Mobil1 0W40 (old version) and they shear down in 5k from 13.5cst to 13.3cst.
Catch is, that those oils meet most stringent specifications in auto industry, such as MB 229.5, or MB 229.51, or MB 229.52, or Porsche C30, VW 504.00/507.00. These specifications are far more stringent than anything ACEA and especially API. What is however common for all those specifications is "stay in grade" requirement. That means that oil has to stay in grade throughout OCI, and OCI on some of these engines are 20k.

 

[OilUzer]

Originally Posted by Silver
... why would the mfg even bother with a 5W when their 0W provides superior cold starts due to thinner 40C, AND has a thicker 100C temp as well. ... probably know the answer - because of manuals calling for 5W and not 0W but it seems the 0W came along after the 5W with superior additives and made the 5W technically redundant. ...


If the manual calls for 5W you can use 0W. you can say same about 10W ...
part of the equation is cost. 0W oils are more expensive and need a superior base oil. you can make a cheaper 10W30 oil (can even be dino) if the 10 or 5W meets your cold temp requirements and not required to buy an expensive 0W ... Some 0W oils are $12 per qt.

 

[John344]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


So should I consider 5W30 Mobil1 ESP is better than 10W-30 Pennzoil?

What is application?
Your question about oils in first thread are very common here.
Mobil1 you asking about is made for European vehicles and some Japanese and American vehicles running new generation of diesel engines. Generally, european engines are running on thicker, and more sophisticated oils.
Just because that Mobi1 is 5W30 does not mean it will shear down faster than 10W30, and that is because those ACEA A3/B3 B4, or C3 (like this Mobil1) are made from more sophisticated base oils. By that thoery, 0W40 oils should shear down much faster than 5W30 and especially 10W30. However, I ran several UOA on VW CC and VW Tiguan using Mobil1 0W40 (old version) and they shear down in 5k from 13.5cst to 13.3cst.
Catch is, that those oils meet most stringent specifications in auto industry, such as MB 229.5, or MB 229.51, or MB 229.52, or Porsche C30, VW 504.00/507.00. These specifications are far more stringent than anything ACEA and especially API. What is however common for all those specifications is "stay in grade" requirement. That means that oil has to stay in grade throughout OCI, and OCI on some of these engines are 20k.



This is new information to me! So I basically used a Diesel Engine oil for my gasoline car? I was told that the Mobil1 ESP is for Gasoline and the Oil Dealer didn't mention anything about Diesel? Should I worry? Thanks.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


So should I consider 5W30 Mobil1 ESP is better than 10W-30 Pennzoil?

What is application?
Your question about oils in first thread are very common here.
Mobil1 you asking about is made for European vehicles and some Japanese and American vehicles running new generation of diesel engines. Generally, european engines are running on thicker, and more sophisticated oils.
Just because that Mobi1 is 5W30 does not mean it will shear down faster than 10W30, and that is because those ACEA A3/B3 B4, or C3 (like this Mobil1) are made from more sophisticated base oils. By that thoery, 0W40 oils should shear down much faster than 5W30 and especially 10W30. However, I ran several UOA on VW CC and VW Tiguan using Mobil1 0W40 (old version) and they shear down in 5k from 13.5cst to 13.3cst.
Catch is, that those oils meet most stringent specifications in auto industry, such as MB 229.5, or MB 229.51, or MB 229.52, or Porsche C30, VW 504.00/507.00. These specifications are far more stringent than anything ACEA and especially API. What is however common for all those specifications is "stay in grade" requirement. That means that oil has to stay in grade throughout OCI, and OCI on some of these engines are 20k.



This is new information to me! So I basically used a Diesel Engine oil for my gasoline car? I was told that the Mobil1 ESP is for Gasoline and the Oil Dealer didn't mention anything about Diesel? Should I worry? Thanks.


No. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by John344
This is new information to me! So I basically used a Diesel Engine oil for my gasoline car? I was told that the Mobil1 ESP is for Gasoline and the Oil Dealer didn't mention anything about Diesel? Should I worry? Thanks.

No concerns at all! That type of lube was simply used in diesel engines first and primarily, particularly in North America. What he's getting at is that most ordinary North American and Japanese gasoline engines call for something that is SN/GF-5, not something SN and C3. Note that my G37 calls for SM or newer only, with GF-4 or GF-5 optional, so oil companies' oil selectors will suggest a C3 lube as suitable. Similarly, I'm running a CK-4/SN E6 lube right now, which is suitable for diesel and gasoline engines, with higher HTHS. It meets the specifications for my G37 as they are written.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


So should I consider 5W30 Mobil1 ESP is better than 10W-30 Pennzoil?

What is application?
Your question about oils in first thread are very common here.
Mobil1 you asking about is made for European vehicles and some Japanese and American vehicles running new generation of diesel engines. Generally, european engines are running on thicker, and more sophisticated oils.
Just because that Mobi1 is 5W30 does not mean it will shear down faster than 10W30, and that is because those ACEA A3/B3 B4, or C3 (like this Mobil1) are made from more sophisticated base oils. By that thoery, 0W40 oils should shear down much faster than 5W30 and especially 10W30. However, I ran several UOA on VW CC and VW Tiguan using Mobil1 0W40 (old version) and they shear down in 5k from 13.5cst to 13.3cst.
Catch is, that those oils meet most stringent specifications in auto industry, such as MB 229.5, or MB 229.51, or MB 229.52, or Porsche C30, VW 504.00/507.00. These specifications are far more stringent than anything ACEA and especially API. What is however common for all those specifications is "stay in grade" requirement. That means that oil has to stay in grade throughout OCI, and OCI on some of these engines are 20k.



This is new information to me! So I basically used a Diesel Engine oil for my gasoline car? I was told that the Mobil1 ESP is for Gasoline and the Oil Dealer didn't mention anything about Diesel? Should I worry? Thanks.

Actually, it is not "diesel" oil per se. It is Low-SAPS oil, used primarily in diesel engines due to DPF that they are equipped with. You can most definiately use them in gasoline engines. Catch was, the US had high sulfur levels in gas prior to 01/2017, and these oils do not do good with high sulfur content and direct injection engines.
However, that is mostly, not a problem anymore.
However, these oils could be absolute overkill in certain applications. I use in Toyota ILSAC GF-5 oil as there is no need for such oil as Mobil1 ESP 5W30. You see, I use Mobil1 5W30 Extended Performance, but it is so called energy conserving oil with HTHS around 3.0. That Mobil1 you referenced has HTHS 3.5, and KV100 is much higher. It is basically almost 5W40 oil.
In VW Tiguan however, I would never use oil I use in Toyota, that engine calls for those type of oils such as Mobil1 ESP 5W30 ACEA C3.