Cam/Lifter Replacement vs. Long Block

[The Critic]

I would expect most camshaft failures to result in a significant amount of metal being sent thru the engine.

If correct, how have folks been able to successfully repair cam/lifter failures in the field? I regularly see posts of techs completing successful cam/lifter jobs on HEMI engines. But based on this bulletin, it seems like most cam/lifter failure should result in a long block replacement.

 

[Chris142]

In the 60's and into the early 80's GM had many cams go flat. Mostly Chevrolet v8's. After cam and lifter replacement many lived long lives. I remember my 350 was full of metal. I poured gallons of diesel fuel through it to wash out what I could. It also ran many years after that. No idea how the bearings looked. Likely copper.

 

[PimTac]

That does seem kind of half *****. If the head gasket blows do they replace the gasket without checking the head to make sure it’s not warped?

 

[demarpaint]

I often wondered about that myself. I guess it depends on how soon the problem is caught, and/or a roll of the dice if it is done under a warranty claim. If they fix it and the vehicle doesn't come back with problems related to damage from the wear metals that went through the engine prior to getting trapped in the filter they're good. All they have to be concerned with is getting it through the warranty period after the repair. For a mom and pop shop, or no warranty it would be best to explain what can happen later on. Then let the customer decide if they want to spend the money to do the complete long block job, or go with the less expensive fix and not guarantee the job.

 

[oggb]

If you don't see metal/debris and the cam is wiped: that metal that should be on the cam/lifters does not exist and it cannot hurt you.

If you DO see metal/debris and the cam is wiped: replace long block because the metal does exist in this particular case.

 

[ron17571]

I guess it's one of those it depends situations. If I owned the vehicle and it was towards the end of the warranty...

 

[2EHA]

they want to minimize comebacks

the core will be cleaned up and salvaged at a later date

 

[OVERKILL]

Sounds the same as the approach with the GM engines, though with the billet cams, the GM cams sometimes survive.

 

[benjy]

its a crap shoot for sure + likely depending on the engines age + use a simple new cam + lifters MIGHT be OK. for sure manufactures want the cheepest repair!!! friends 2016-7-8 malibu had the piston issue at low miles prolly from LSPI + he traded it off asap after the repair, prolly smart if $$$ permit, surely tough these days!

 

[Timmastertech]

The majority of the debris from my experience drops into the pan, the pump picks it up and the filter catches it. Have yet to see any metal in the ocv screen on a hemi

 

[Skippy722]

It seems if you catch it early you can save the the rest of the engine, which was the case for my friend. He noticed a misfire only under WOT, otherwise it was totally fine. They replaced the cam and all lifters.

 

[nthach]

The oil pump pick up should pick up any metal swarf that’s big. It’s the sub-micron particles(such as that from a Scotch-Brite or irresponsibly using abrasives to clean mating surfaces) or fine metal particles that’ll get you in trouble. But a cam/lifter failure shouldn’t puke fine metal particles into the oil. A turbo bearing failure yes.

 

[MattPersman]

I have seen plenty with metal on the OCV. They ask to pull it if it’s full of metal…engine time.

half the time they still want you to tear more crap down wasting your time and not paying you for it

 

[JTK]

Yep. Have wondered this myself and is why I cut open and examine every used oil filter off my 2019 Ram 1500 classic's hemi.

 

[TeamZero]

The idea behind this is, if there is metal in the ocv, then metal has got past the filter. If thats the case, then further damage will probably have occurred. They had many failures after just a cam/lifter job, while under warr. , so now, if doing a warr. repair, if metal is found in ocv, it gets a long block. Before we do a cam/ lifter job under warr. we have to inspect ocv first.

 

[Cujet]

I know that when Lycoming aircraft camshafts let go, small metal bits circulate through the engine and might score the piston skirts, the oil pump and anything splash lubricated. But the bearings and top ends (pushrods/rockers) generally live, as the filter catches the particles.

Aircraft engines are a little different of course, in particular, the oil sump is well isolated from the crankcase with narrow slots for oil movement downward. So any debris that drains into the sump generally stays there. Camshaft bits then get pulled into the oil pump. They are filtered out by the spin on filter and the oil cooler.

The result is a teardown, but not necessarily an overhaul.

 

[CheezWhiz]

i replaced a flat tappet on a 350 and the engine lived a happy life for years thereafter. didn’t do anything besides change the oil.