***Calling all Chem. Engineers*** Gas Rejuvenation with Butane/Propane procedure????

Joined
Jul 3, 2011
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Location
Florida
Hi.....I'm hoping some of the Chemical Engineers here can look at this info I found in the link below.

Will this work by bubbling Butane or Propane into stale gas?????

Other than water contamination and fuel (volatility????) what other components of the fuel do I have to worry about?.

I left my car sit with about 1/2 tank of gas for a few years after becoming ill. It sat in a humid parking garage of my apt. building by the ocean in Fl.

Short of draining the tank which is gong to be hard due to my underlying health, is there any additives that will remove any water and/or rejuvenate this fuel to be run by idling the car, or will this procedure work above?

I can probably and easily try to drain the tank by doing a simple by-pass pump activation, and pump the fuel into a container, and/or maybe a good siphon, but this is in a 1990 Cadillac Brougham and it's probably got 10+ gal. of gas.
 
Allegedly, the fuel system in your Cadillac is closed, so there should be zero moisture intrusion in theory. However, we all know that reality does not follow theory like it is supposed to.

What I would do is to add 24 - 36 ounces of isopropyl alcohol (not rubbing alcohol), two 15ounce cans of Berryman B-12 Chemtool, and 5 gallons of fresh gasoline to your gas tank and et it sit for a day and then try and start the engine. The isopropyl alcohol is to absorb any moisture that might be present in the fuel tank, the Berryman's B-12 will help to dissolve any deposits that might have formed, and the fresh gasoline is to dilute everything in the gas tank.

I am sure that the gasoline that is currently in your gas tank has degraded somewhat, but I really would not worry about it if you add the alcohol, B-12, and fresh gas.

I really do not see the need to bubble butane or propane into the gas tank as that could be quite dangerous. While some of the butane or propane would dissolve into the stale gasoline, I don't really think it would be that effective in rejuvenating stale gasoline.

While I am not a Chemical Engineer, I do have a doctorate in chemistry with a great deal of experience in the area of synthetic fuels and lubricants from coal.
 
Propane and Butane have relatively high octane ratings...issue is that they're volatile.
So, i can see this as a way to bump up octane. But you could just add 2-3 gallons of high 91/93 octane fuel and you should be fine.

There may be gums/varnishes that form which propane/butane will do nothing for.
Additives like gumout would probably help if used in the first place. Not sure after the fact.
B12 is heavy on solvents so that might be a good option after the fact.
 
What I would do is to add 24 - 36 ounces of isopropyl alcohol (not rubbing alcohol), two 15ounce cans of Berryman B-12 Chemtool, and 5 gallons of fresh gasoline to your gas tank and et it sit for a day and then try and start the engine. The isopropyl alcohol is to absorb any moisture that might be present in the fuel tank, the Berryman's B-12 will help to dissolve any deposits that might have formed, and the fresh gasoline is to dilute everything in the gas tank...

...I really do not see the need to bubble butane or propane into the gas tank as that could be quite dangerous. While some of the butane or propane would dissolve into the stale gasoline, I don't really think it would be that effective in rejuvenating stale gasoline...
I agree and think that bubbling any gas through gasoline would be a dangerous practice even in a controlled laboratory environment.

I would think that a very low percentage of butane or whatever would get dissolved in the fuel and what did get dissolved would be quickly liberated unless it was contained under pressure.

Does your homeowner's and medical insurance cover uncontrolled butane experiments? o_O
 
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Glad I checked in with you guys "Before I'd Checked-Out" doing that Butane/Propane "Back-Woods Moonshine" fix!!!!!!! LoL.....!

Since we're all on the same page now........I do have some Berryman B12, but also came across some info out there researching this late last night. Maybe I 1st saw some old posts here about using the HEET Yellow bottle which is Methanol. Should I use the Red bottle IPA or Yellow bottle of HEET?

Or just buy a jug of 100%IPA?

Speak'in of Hillbilly's........LoL.........what do you expert fuel "Shine Junkies" think of this Project Farms experiment regarding the same with fuel/gas/water separation and his concoctions?

I came across his experiment last night that sort of address's my situation but just not sure what else is in the tank but water and/or "GookY Stuff" which the B12 should break-up and hopefully get trapped in the fuel-filter that I'll need to change out.





Thanks so much for the valuable info.

Regards,
Chris
 
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Sounds to risky, easier to add a pint of denatured alcohol. That should bind to any water. Next tank run some berryman b-12 for solvent cleaning.

Then change the fuel filter if you like.
 
Use the red bottle of Heet - that is the one with isopropyl alcohol (IPA). By the way, IPA is much more miscible in gasoline than methanol due to the number of carbons in the molecule and it's molecular structure (3 carbons in IPA as compared to 1 carbon in methanol).

As far as purchasing a jug of 100% IPA, are you going to need more than about 1 quart for this project? Do you want to have a partial container of IPA laying around? What is the cost of a jug of IPA? If it were me, I wold just purchase 3 bottles of the red Heet.
 
Thanks Chemman. I only have 91% from Walgreens.....so the Heet will be the best option.
So, here's another of his videos I just saw on the Youtube suggested vids on the side-bar.....what went wrong with this experiment?

Too much water to fuel ratio?

One person said in the comments that the water DID mix with the HEET, but his experiment didn't work at 9:38 mark.......not sure about his explanation and his results.....

 
Yes, you do not want to use drug store isopropyl alcohol rubbing alcohol because it contains water - one of the things you are trying to get rid of in your fuel system (if there is any).

I have not watched the videos, but I know that regardless of the brand, all these moisture removal products that can be added to gasoline can only solubilize a small amount of water present in a fuel system. One bottle of these products might be able to handle an ounce or two of water in say 20 gallons of gasoline. Add any more water, and the chemical equilibrium allowing the gasoline to "hold the water in solution" falls apart and 2 or 3 liquid phases form in the gas tank and the engine runs rough again due to water in the gas.

Hence, if you are worried about water being present in the gasoline, then using a product that contains zero water and 95 - 98 % isopropyl alcohol is your best bet rather than using an all in one product that might only contain 10 - 20 % isopropyl alcohol.

Now to answer your question about the too much water to fuel ratio, yes, that is the correct answer.
 
Thanks Chemman..........I kind of get it now......I think the experiment shows too much water than the product can handle which is why his generator test engine kept stalling.

It was mentioned above to consider Denatured Alcohol????????

I'll get my products lined up that you recommend, and give this a go. Only thing that might be in my favor was this car was last filled-up in Vegas before shipping here. I can only wonder if this cars EVAP system/sealed tank, kept the Florida humidity and moisture out of the tank, sitting in my buildings parking garage, as this was the last place on earth where it should've been parked....but as I mentioned my health problems, I didn't plan on having 2 heart-attacks at 45 which I didn't recover from......and the car just sat.....

Back to HEET YELLOW container with methanol.......is it ever discussed here of how much can be added to a tank of fuel for any combustion benefits or even decarbinizing like from the benefits with meth.-injection, or is meth-injection far more concentrated vs. what can be added to a tank of fuel?
 
Article is assuming the lighter butane and propane have evaporated. In a closed system not as likely as an open air container. Could look at phase diagrams to determine amount of each gas dissolved in gasoline would be present at a certain temperature and pressure. Forcing the gases back into the gas though 'bubbling' is a method for diffusion. Interesting to consider but the oxidation would need to be reversed as well which was never discussed how to do that. I know many people have experienced fuel issues but personally I have started cars that sit for several years and they ran fine. I am about to start a motorcycle this weekend that has sat for ~6 years. Just need to sell it to someone that can use it since I no longer want to ride it where I currently live due to heavy traffic and higher risks.
 
cadchris, sorry to hear about the ticker troubles. That is tough and unfortunate.

I really can't say if adding methanol to fuel is discussed much here as a combustion modifier. Personally I would not knowingly add methanol to my gas tank because it has very poor solubility in gasoline relative to ethanol and isopropyl alcohol. Since 99+% of the time I run the E10 gas in my vehicles, I typically do not add any water absorbers to my gas tank unless it's raining cats & dogs when I fill up and the wind is directing the rainfall into the area of the open fuel filler neck.

Good luck with getting your Cadillac going!
 
...So.......Back to regular programming.

I never got to join-up with the Dyson Analysis before he went totally out of business, and getting access to his "Dyson Secret Fuel Mix"......I wonder if in this instance it could help with water and clean the fuel system & combustion chambers.
Anyone????? Any hints????

I just found a few bottles of Red-Line SI-1, so that's going into this tank eventually too after I run the tank down with the HEET & B12!

I'm just so disgusted that this car was preserved in a car-museum and on display at the Auto Collection that was located inside the Imperial Palace Hotel in Vegas for 20yrs, before they started selling off all the inventory when the hotel sold to the LINQ Hotel & Casino, and they lost the car museum space. So I bought it site-unseen, and then the worst happened to me and ALSO MY NEW CAR since the salt air whipping thru the parking garage took it's toll and rusted every shinny surface. I just wished I could've gotten down there to at least hosed-down the car with WD-40 then put a cover on it since the cover alone didn't protect it at all from the corrosive salt-air........ should've never bought this car so someone could've taken care of it.

So if you can imagine chest pains, I really have them now, I'm so f'n upset, talking about it........!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LoL.....

It WAS a nice car.....and afraid of heart-attack #3 seeing & dealing all the damage from the ****n salt air:

Here's the old AutoCollectoins Website at the Imperial Palace with photos:





 
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Thanks for the imaging information! I hope it helps someone on the board!

Darn nice car! Reminds me of a 1976 Buick Electra 225 4 Door I had in graduate school and the first few years I was employed. Once heck of a road car and I did put the mileage on it over the 8 years I owned it.
 
The lady's must've loved the Electra in high-school....!

Oil's always been on my mind, but now heart attacks & strokes too!...especially since the original owner of BITOG Bob Winters had a stroke years ago and had to sell-off this forum.....I wonder if Bob Winters is still around....heart disease & strokes go hand-n-hand. They also do similar imaging on the brain/neck called an MRA.

I wish someone could give-up Terry Dyson's DSFM "Dyson Secret Fuel Mix"........maybe it'll clear the arteries too!

Just realized, got to change my Car list to add my 90 Brougham next to my burned-out 91 that the salt air also totally took it's toll on....and that's why I made my big purchase mistake on the 90.

Since you know chemistry, any advice for rust removal from chrome wire wheels?????

I bought some dangerous Mag Wheel Cleaner with Hydrofofluric Acid and got an acid-pumper sprayer with heavy gloves ect......hesitant to use it........I found some other stuff that I think is buffered/inhibited HCL/Muratic Acid called Acid Magic that's supposedly safe.

Do you know how it's made and is there a simple ingredient to add to regular Muratic Acid?

I have so many areas to treat now, that I know I'll need some kind of acid to remove rust down to clean metal rather than converting it......
 
The lady's must've loved the Electra in high-school....!

Oil's always been on my mind, but now heart attacks & strokes too!...especially since the original owner of BITOG Bob Winters had a stroke years ago and had to sell-off this forum.....I wonder if Bob Winters is still around....heart disease & strokes go hand-n-hand. They also do similar imaging on the brain/neck called an MRA.

I wish someone could give-up Terry Dyson's DSFM "Dyson Secret Fuel Mix"........maybe it'll clear the arteries too!

Just realized, got to change my Car list to add my 90 Brougham next to my burned-out 91 that the salt air also totally took it's toll on....and that's why I made my big purchase mistake on the 90.

Since you know chemistry, any advice for rust removal from chrome wire wheels?????

I bought some dangerous Mag Wheel Cleaner with Hydrofofluric Acid and got an acid-pumper sprayer with heavy gloves ect......hesitant to use it........I found some other stuff that I think is buffered/inhibited HCL/Muratic Acid called Acid Magic that's supposedly safe.

Do you know how it's made and is there a simple ingredient to add to regular Muratic Acid?

I have so many areas to treat now, that I know I'll need some kind of acid to remove rust down to clean metal rather than converting it......
When I hear muriatic acid it makes my skin crawl, it's what we used to clean the lime from the mortar off brick walls after we built them. I believe we mixed it 4/5 parts water to 1 part acid, water does dilute it. I had wheel cleaner from a detail guy years ago that was similar to muriatic acid just not sure what it was but it burned and made your skin itch if you got to much on your skin and didn't rinse it off right away just like the muriatic.

The stuff in your link sounds a lot different but be carful.
 
Well, I was close to 30 and married when I acquired the 1976 Buick Electra, but my wife did like riding in it!

As far as a rust remover for chrome wire wheels, I would purchase one of the many products from the detailing section at an auto parts store. Working with concentrated acid can be dangerous as I am sure you are aware. Also, hydrofluoric acid is really nasty and can cause burns worse than muriatic/hydrochloric acid.

FYI, the product you make reference to, Acid Magic, is hydrochloric acid (according to it's product data sheet) which is simply another name for muriatic acid.

The only thing I know of that can be added to hydrochloric acid that will buffer it is sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), but you would need a lot of it and you'll wind up with common salt water. Not a very good cleaner.

I would check out some of the automotive detailing forums and see what recommendations they have for a relatively safe and "environmentally safe" rust removing cleaner for use on chromed wire wheels.

Good Luck!
 
Thanks Chemman. and everyone here........I got a lot of work ahead of me..
....my nerves are totally shot, and I think I need a script for Xanax!!!!!

Any Dr's in the house! LoL.....
 
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