California grid officials ready to ask for conservation as extreme heat wave approaches

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Long time. Our grid is old and in need of repair. FYI, the grid is the cause of almost all forrest fire ignition.
Not to mention an explosion in San Bruno (South City).

Disagree with the fires being started by old grid...that's near impossible unless they stopped cutting down trees...

When I was in transmission, 30 years ago, there was a group explaining the dangers of EMF, and putting on National TV stories that "plants don't grow under High Voltage power lines", compelte with fottage. Our regional manager countered with a picture our team of 6 blokes, with chainsaws' weedwhackers, 4WDs and 6WD trucks who spend every working day cutting them down.

As to upgrades, it's going to be an interesting conundrum...transmission lines do funny things with low power flows...the new world will require that they (some) carry three times the load, a third of the time, and either idle of reverse the rest of the time.
 
Disagree with the fires being started by old grid...that's near impossible unless they stopped cutting down trees...

When I was in transmission, 30 years ago, there was a group explaining the dangers of EMF, and putting on National TV stories that "plants don't grow under High Voltage power lines", compelte with fottage. Our regional manager countered with a picture our team of 6 blokes, with chainsaws' weedwhackers, 4WDs and 6WD trucks who spend every working day cutting them down.

As to upgrades, it's going to be an interesting conundrum...transmission lines do funny things with low power flows...the new world will require that they (some) carry three times the load, a third of the time, and either idle of reverse the rest of the time.

Id be willing to bet you maintain your lines better than these guys do.

PG&E hand out bonuses while the equipment just falls apart or wears out.


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Disagree with the fires being started by old grid...that's near impossible unless they stopped cutting down trees...

When I was in transmission, 30 years ago, there was a group explaining the dangers of EMF, and putting on National TV stories that "plants don't grow under High Voltage power lines", compelte with fottage. Our regional manager countered with a picture our team of 6 blokes, with chainsaws' weedwhackers, 4WDs and 6WD trucks who spend every working day cutting them down.

As to upgrades, it's going to be an interesting conundrum...transmission lines do funny things with low power flows...the new world will require that they (some) carry three times the load, a third of the time, and either idle of reverse the rest of the time.
PG&E

PG&E equipment has been blamed for several of California’s wildfires in recent years. The utility pleaded guilty in 2019 to 84 counts of involuntary manslaughter in the 2018 Camp Fire, the state’s deadliest wildfire, admitting its electrical grid caused the fire. It also faces civil and criminal actions from other blazes.
 
What a difference a day makes. Wholesale prices changed from ~$150/MW to ~$1500..2168, painted across the state.
Same for tomorrow's forecast.
 
I'm sorry schwinney, you're stuck in this time line, there are no more gigawatts left to power your DeLorean.
Great Scott, Marty!

What will happen next.. the Cubs win the World Series?


And get rid of nuclear and go back to coal! I mean one is man made (sort of) and the other is natural, mother Earth material. There is no question on which is better.
Nuclear power, since it is the safest most potent and cleanest of the energies. Small footprint of what is not.

Hydrogen cars, electric cars are finally here but we need either more advanced technology or well maybe nuclear power to charge them.

I'll buy a DeLorean and get it converted to EV or LS or something when the time comes. The one in my avatar. I don't like new cars...
 
Most people don't because why pay peak prices?
Before this, CA encouraged you to use your electricity before sundown because it uses the highest ratio of renewable energy technologies in the grid system

But right now, they are discouraging it because it also puts the most strain on the electric grid, which I hear the evil petroleum backup generators have been switched on to compensate
 
Before this, CA encouraged you to use your electricity before sundown because it uses the highest ratio of renewable energy technologies in the grid system

But right now, they are discouraging it because it also puts the most strain on the electric grid, which I hear the evil petroleum backup generators have been switched on to compensate
Not exactly. We are asked to conserve between 4PM and 9PM. And not just EVs. AC is the biggie; advice is to set your AC to 70* and then set to 78* at 4PM. Clothes dryers, ovens, etc should not be used. Best time to charge your car is mornings.

it's been rough. I think it was 107* here in Los Gatos where I live. Central Valley is worse. Our house is well insulated and I have ceiling fans.
Others are not so lucky. People with health issues can be in trouble. It is after 9PM and still 80*.
Some cooling will start tomorrow, probably 100* peak here.
 
Disagree with the fires being started by old grid...that's near impossible unless they stopped cutting down trees...
That's exactly what they did! Stopped cutting trees and brush, then divided up the money they should have spent on maintenance into management bonuses.
I have 31 acres with a PG&E line through it. They quit cutting trees on the property until after the Paradise fire (the one with many fatalities). After that, they came through and removed enough oak for about 15 chords of wood. Don't know how much pine. I'd guess over 10 years of deferred maintenance.
To explain how they got away with would get political, so I'm not going there.
 
Not exactly. We are asked to conserve between 4PM and 9PM. And not just EVs. AC is the biggie; advice is to set your AC to 70* and then set to 78* at 4PM. Clothes dryers, ovens, etc should not be used. Best time to charge your car is mornings.

it's been rough. I think it was 107* here in Los Gatos where I live. Central Valley is worse. Our house is well insulated and I have ceiling fans.
Others are not so lucky. People with health issues can be in trouble. It is after 9PM and still 80*.
Some cooling will start tomorrow, probably 100* peak here.
The reason that 4 to 9 pm is the strain on the electrical grid, a big assumption is up to around 4 pm, people would be working at their respective job place of employment, not working from home.

If you’re working from home, then you should try to do your part to reduce the electrical load all day

In more desert parts of the state, if you signed up for the climate control with the electric company, then the electric company controls your thermostat
 
The reason that 4 to 9 pm is the strain on the electrical grid, a big assumption is up to around 4 pm, people would be working at their respective job place of employment, not working from home.

If you’re working from home, then you should try to do your part to reduce the electrical load all day

In more desert parts of the state, if you signed up for the climate control with the electric company, then the electric company controls your thermostat
It's also the time that the solar panel output starts to tapper off quite a bit.
 
Somebody on twitter recently plotted genset sales in Texas and Cali and they lead the nation by a huge margin, and have for years. This very much goes against the "green" agenda of course, if people are burning methane/gasoline/diesel to keep the lights and A/C running.

I don't doubt that, I bought 2 generators after the February '21 debacle, Haven't even taken them out of the boxes. Must be a record because I can't recall the last time my power didn't go out at least overnight a couple times a year. It's been 18 months now with no outages.
 
I know it's off-topic but what do you mean by "funny things"?

3 Phase high voltage overheads do "funny things"....

They have electromagnetic, inductive, and capacitive (sp???) effeccts on each other, and the geometry of them effects how they interact.

By having an adjacent 120 degree out of phase conductor next to it, there will be an induced current/voltage, the makes the sinusoidal waves non sinusoidal, introducing "noise" that heats up transformers and things...it can make one phase a higher voltage than the others...on an unloaded line, it can actually make the voltage at the other end HIGHER than the starting voltage, especially if there's no load at the other end, and you want to close a breaker in to a load.

So if you watch them, as you drive distances, depending on the voltage (spacing), and geometry, you can observe the workarounds.

So 11kV lines have a fairly small spacing requirement to prevent flashing, so they "phase swap" as they go across the distance, you can see one phase lifted, crossed to the other side, high, then a phase on that side swapped to the other, before the high wire drops down, over three or four power poles - roatating the phases means that the impact on one phase on the others gets negated over distance.

On the BIG HV towers, they often can't do that, so might have one phase on the two conductors on the middle deck then have one high, one low for the other two phases.
The loading/unloading causes issues...and creating a system that carries 24 hours worth of energy over 8 hours, before being unloaded for the remaining 16 is a problematic design.

I had a paper here somewhere on an isolated community in Canada somewhere that had a small (10s of MW) coal generating station locally, and a transmission line that stretcht to the main grid...they decommissioned the coal generator, as the grid could supply the load easily, however they were restricted to only 10s of percent of the line capacity due to the long transmission line messing the power distribution up. So they had to cut the shaft on the turbine generator, and run the generator at 3,600RPM, and connected to the grid like a generator (in a form called a synchronous condenser - condenser baing an ancient term for capacitor), which corrected out the capacitance issues, and allowed the line to be fully loaded.

Wind and solar farms are crying foul that their "cheap" power is being made more expensive by having to install these at wind/solar farms.
 
Yes, I expect it will be.

Somebody on twitter recently plotted genset sales in Texas and Cali and they lead the nation by a huge margin, and have for years. This very much goes against the "green" agenda of course, if people are burning methane/gasoline/diesel to keep the lights and A/C running.
Some of the extra grid capacity during these events comes from the less desirable sources as well. Waivers are given to providers from the air quality regulations normally in effect.

More equipment than normal fails during these heat events which is one of the reason for people buying backups. You can see the outages on PG&E and other providers websites. I was wondering whether these outages mitigate some of the demand during these events and whether CALISO factors that into the models.

The other more recent reason for buying backups is that the wildfire liability caused PG&E to take an entirely new approach to preventing wildfires, namely they shut down small sections where wind conditions are expected to down lines in dry conditions.

And another reason would be to have backup for the rolling outages that would take place if enough people didn't reduce their usage between 4pm and 10pm.

I went with an inverter powerful enough to open my garage door and power the wine fridge.
 
I find this website interesting even though I am nowhere near California.

My question is - when they exceed max capacity thats when they start doing rolling blackouts or?

I think last night I saw this graph show capacity at 49,000 MW and demand at 51,000 MW? Todays prediction is about the same.

View attachment 115961
They went over last night. CAISO said they didn't load shed, and maybe they didn't directly, but several of the smaller distributors did execute rolling black-outs:
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D16F839F-7EDB-41E8-8703-9E3978938A52_1_105_c.jpeg
DAD2C3B8-06D9-4189-B982-42E08FC56C24_1_105_c.jpeg
 
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