Buying a used but reliable 4WD/AWD vehicle

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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think the Echo and that 4runnner have pretty much the same power to weight ratio, but the 4runner will burn 3 times as much gas bogging up a grade at 4k rpm...
Can you fit 13" rims on your Echo? Get some 155/80R13 snow tires and it will be the best car you've driven in the snow, plus you'll get some gear reduction which will help.
Anyways, given insurance and registration and maintenance of another vehicle, I don't see how buying another old car can possibly save money? Maintain the two you've got and if one is junk replace it.


My Echo came with optional 15" wheels. Regular factory wheel size is 14". So, 13" wheel size might not be possible. One advantage of having my Outback maintained by the dealer is that I can always get a free loaner as long as it is in the shop. Last time I got to drive a brand new 2018 Crosstrek with 33 miles on the odometer for a week. That was my first experience with CVT, which was zippy in local traffic and I-270, but I did not have a chance to try it on i-68. If I took my Outback to a reputable local repair shop for services, I would still need a third car as the backup car to go to work.
 
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Originally Posted By: krismoriah72
My vote is going to be for a Subaru Impreza or Legacy with the 2.2. I had one that i drove for a living back in the late 90s. I dont think the 2.2 has any of the issues that the 2.5 did. Easy to work on and not much ever seemed to go wrong. 31mpg was my pretty consistant average.


I could not find one with manual transmission on Craiglist. Many listings with 4 cylinders engines do not specify engine size. How can you tell which listing has a 2.2L engine. I have heard from Internet that older Subaru automatic transmission was not reliable. Was your good experience with a manual transmission?
 
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Originally Posted By: spk2000
Used Mitsubishi Montero's can be found with lower miles and very dependable. They will shift on the long climbs but do fine. A little hard on gas but will get you through most anything when you need it to. Tires are still very important even on 4wd. 4wd wild bald slicks are far worse than FWD with good tires.


I found one with relatively low mileage on Craiglist: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/d/mitsubishi-montero/6440270457.html

I never owned a Mitsubish vehicle before, so, I am unsure about its reliability. What do you think of this listing?
 
Originally Posted By: SuzukiGoat
As someone who has had a few 3rd gen 4runners and 1.5 gen xterra, the xterra is the more reliable vehicle. The 4runner is better.

At 230k miles the 4runner feels as tight as a new vehicle. But it always seems to need some small electrical part replaced. Nothing that strands you, but it will annoy you.

The xterra will rattle, it will make all sorts of noises. It will sheer oil down in 4k miles. But it never needs anything fixed. Ever. It just kind of works.



Last year I bought a 2003 4Runner with a V8 engine (originated from New York) for $6500 from a Virginia car dealer, who claimed that it passed VA safety inspection. The ride was really nice. After the purchase I had it towed to a repair shop in MD for inspection. Well it failed MD safety inspection miserably due to severe frame rust. When the mechanic jacked up the SUV, he pointed the two holes on the frame and said the frame would collapse in a T-bone collision causing fatal injury to the passengers. I filmed the whole thing on my iPhone, towed the SUV back, and showed it to the dealer, who kindly took the SUV back and gave me full refund. Apparently each state has different requirements in a vehicle safety inspection. I learned a hard lesson while loosing $600 on the towing fee. I should have done more research on Internet. I do not know how extensive this frame rust issue is. That is why I am looking at older 4Runner. Since you live in the South without dealing with salt in the winter. How is your 2001 4Runner's frame holding up?
 
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Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Another idea: check into renting something for your 2 trips a month. Not sure if any of the majors have AWD vehicles but it may cost you less overall.


My son is into the 3rd year of his 8 years contract with U.S. Marine Corps as a reservist who currently enrolls in the West Virginia University with a full scholarship. Despite of 1 semester delay due to boot camp training he expects to graduate in 3 and half years on time. So, he will graduate after 18 months and leave WV if all go as planned. As a U.S. Marine Corps reservist, my son is obligated to attend one weekend drill at the Quantico Marine Corps Base in Virginia every month. Since he does not drive (long story), I have to pick him up at WVU and take him to the base, and then pick him up at the base and drive him back to WVU on Sunday evening. The drill date is always given few days prior. Maybe this is how Marine Corps runs to give the reservists the impression they will be mobilized at any minute. My son moves the third time who always looks out for cheaper rent. This time his quarter resides on a steep hill. Imagine the hilly streets in the city of San Francisco. Even with Outback I feel kind of uneasy climbing the hill in winter. Therefore, a 4WD/AWD vehicle is a real necessity because I don't want my son to get into trouble with Marine Corps for being late to drill because of transportation issues. Because of unpredictable drill dates, it is impossible to reserve a 4WD/AWD vehicle from a car rental company with questionable availability. If my son decided to stay in WVU for the graduate school, then I would be looking into 5 more years of chauffeuring instead of 18 months unless he learned to drive somehow with a 4WD/AWD vehicle. Therefore, the one I buy will be passed on to him in the future.
 
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Originally Posted By: sifan
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think the Echo and that 4runnner have pretty much the same power to weight ratio, but the 4runner will burn 3 times as much gas bogging up a grade at 4k rpm...
Can you fit 13" rims on your Echo? Get some 155/80R13 snow tires and it will be the best car you've driven in the snow, plus you'll get some gear reduction which will help.
Anyways, given insurance and registration and maintenance of another vehicle, I don't see how buying another old car can possibly save money? Maintain the two you've got and if one is junk replace it.


My Echo came with optional 15" wheels. Regular factory wheel size is 14". So, 13" wheel size might not be possible. One advantage of having my Outback maintained by the dealer is that I can always get a free loaner as long as it is in the shop. Last time I got to drive a brand new 2018 Crosstrek with 33 miles on the odometer for a week. That was my first experience with CVT, which was zippy in local traffic and I-270, but I did not have a chance to try it on i-68. If I took my Outback to a reputable local repair shop for services, I would still need a third car as the backup car to go to work.


You do realize that the loaner price is built into the hourly rate right? That's why it was 20k at the dealer. Around here, you can get a rental car from Enterprise for around $20-$30 a day. That's part of the dealer's $80-$100+ an hour rate.

Basically any car with a V6 should be fine on the highways. The Echo is just the base level econobox, I'm not surprised you have trouble with it on the highway. A 1.5L engine is pretty small and that car doesn't weigh much. Even a front wheel drive car should be fine on the hills, the key is really the tires. If you're that worried about it, get a set of snow tires.

It's pretty funny that someone suggested a Land Rover earlier. That has some of the worse reliability around, worse than BMW, Audi or Benz. All those cars also have AWD models, but if you take it to the dealer, it's not cheap to maintain. Basically, any car you take to the dealer isn't cheap to maintain. In my 3+ years of owning a Benz, my costs have been around 2k, but that's because it likes $700 for a set of tires and I don't go to the dealer.
 
[/quote]

You do realize that the loaner price is built into the hourly rate right? That's why it was 20k at the dealer. Around here, you can get a rental car from Enterprise for around $20-$30 a day. That's part of the dealer's $80-$100+ an hour rate.

[/quote]

I know, but it is just more convenient to receive and return the rental car right on the spot where my Outback is. My wife has a very busy work schedule; it is kind of hard to find ride if I get the rental somewhere else. Besides, the length of stay of my car in a repair shop is unpredictable. However, I will look into this alternative.
 
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Originally Posted By: sifan
Originally Posted By: SuzukiGoat
As someone who has had a few 3rd gen 4runners and 1.5 gen xterra, the xterra is the more reliable vehicle. The 4runner is better.

At 230k miles the 4runner feels as tight as a new vehicle. But it always seems to need some small electrical part replaced. Nothing that strands you, but it will annoy you.

The xterra will rattle, it will make all sorts of noises. It will sheer oil down in 4k miles. But it never needs anything fixed. Ever. It just kind of works.



Last year I bought a 2003 4Runner with a V8 engine (originated from New York) for $6500 from a Virginia car dealer, who claimed that it passed VA safety inspection. The ride was really nice. After the purchase I had it towed to a repair shop in MD for inspection. Well it failed MD safety inspection miserably due to severe frame rust. When the mechanic jacked up the SUV, he pointed the two holes on the frame and said the frame would collapse in a T-bone collision causing fatal injury to the passengers. I filmed the whole thing on my iPhone, towed the SUV back, and showed it to the dealer, who kindly took the SUV back and gave me full refund. Apparently each state has different requirements in a vehicle safety inspection. I learned a hard lesson while loosing $600 on the towing fee. I should have done more research on Internet. I do not know how extensive this frame rust issue is. That is why I am looking at older 4Runner. Since you live in the South without dealing with salt in the winter. How is your 2001 4Runner's frame holding up?


Any vehicle that has been neglected in a highly corrosive environment, can have severe rust.

An example: I have a now 20 year old 4Runner that I bought new. It has spent every winter on Salt encrusted roads. In fact these days all I use it for is Winter driving, and Fourwheeling trips. It is rust free. How is that possible?, I washed it (including the undercarriage) anytime it needed it. A neighbor bought a Mercury Mountaineer (fancy Ford Explorer) at the same time I bought my 4Runner. He used to make fun of me washing my 4Runner so often in winter. His Mountaineer was hauled off for scrap during the 'Cash for Clunkers' fiasco, due to severe frame rust, and it was in need of a THIRD transmission rebuild. My old 4Runner has had exactly one failure, a $20.00 hydraulic clutch hose, which took about a half hour of my time to replace, and some burned out bulbs over the years.
 
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Since you live in the South without dealing with salt in the winter. How is your 2001 4Runner's frame holding up?


The 4runner, besides a few rock chips, has zero rust anywhere on or under it.

The xterra was recently totaled during out ice storm. I have snow tires and 4wd. The other drivers do not. An f250 put me into a tree rearward. I engaged 4wd, climbed back up onto the road, and drove to work. Found out a week later it was totaled. It was rust free as well. Except for very light frame rust. And that's because I drove through flooded Bonneville salt flats for half a day lol

Ironically, I replaced it with a 2 door yaris. A 1.5L Toyota.

I considered a newer model xterra, but I commute 100 miles per day. And 14mpg on 35s had gotten a little old.
 
Originally Posted By: sifan
[/quote]

You do realize that the loaner price is built into the hourly rate right? That's why it was 20k at the dealer. Around here, you can get a rental car from Enterprise for around $20-$30 a day. That's part of the dealer's $80-$100+ an hour rate.



I know, but it is just more convenient to receive and return the rental car right on the spot where my Outback is. My wife has a very busy work schedule; it is kind of hard to find ride if I get the rental somewhere else. Besides, the length of stay of my car in a repair shop is unpredictable. However, I will look into this alternative.
[/quote]
My strategy for a broken down car is to use CAA to get my car towed to my usual mechanic, with me riding along, they fix the car that day and I drive it home. A fwd common beater shouldn't take long to fix normally, and parts are always available locally.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sifan

I know, but it is just more convenient to receive and return the rental car right on the spot where my Outback is. My wife has a very busy work schedule; it is kind of hard to find ride if I get the rental somewhere else. Besides, the length of stay of my car in a repair shop is unpredictable. However, I will look into this alternative.

My strategy for a broken down car is to use CAA to get my car towed to my usual mechanic, with me riding along, they fix the car that day and I drive it home. A fwd common beater shouldn't take long to fix normally, and parts are always available locally.


I'm in a big city so there's public transportation if I need to drop a car off. Although with AAA, I can also get the car towed up to 100 miles for free and have my mechanic fix it. Sometimes mechanics get busy or need a dealer part so it may take a day or two to fix. But I didn't actually have to rent a car for a repair for a long while although I've noticed a few indy garages now have a small desk for Enterprise to do rentals out of.
 
The garage that I've been using requires an overnight stay for planned stuff--just how they schedule. Sometimes their schedule slips. Prior garages could take up to a week for some of the work I've needed. Must be nice to be able to get in & out in a day!
 
Originally Posted By: supton
The garage that I've been using requires an overnight stay for planned stuff--just how they schedule. Sometimes their schedule slips. Prior garages could take up to a week for some of the work I've needed. Must be nice to be able to get in & out in a day!

There seems to be no shortage of independent garages where I work. The guys I normally use pay themselves pretty fairly, and the counter guys are all older mechanics as well, so they aren't overly busy and have an extra set of hands to get things done if needed.
Any shop will be able to do some involved work on your Camry and almost every necessary part will be available that morning, from one of the parts stores.
With the 03 Tracker I got into some problems with getting a new alternator and a starter in one day. They had the alternator rebuilt by a local shop that day, and the starter really wasn't necessary at all in my daily travels as I could always park on a hill, so I drove home and got the starter done the next day.
 
I recently determined that there is a NAPA only 14 miles from me; I never go that direction so I always forget about them. Otherwise I think of the parts places in the other direction, which are 30+ miles (which is where car rentals are too). Since I more or less drive by those places every day, it's where I'd pick up parts if I couldn't wait for mailorder to arrive. I know the shops around here do have parts delivered but just haven't used them much for their services, as I've tried to do most of my own work.
 
Originally Posted By: lawrencerd
I don't know, my XJ has been very solid in reliability with no issue ever stranding me. Parts are cheap and it's easy to work on so I'd recommend one rather than an overpriced, timing belt equipped 4runner with a zillion miles on it.


Agreed. I have a 2001 XJ Cherokee that I bought with 158,000 it has 260,000. It has never left me strsnded, is easy to wotknon, parts are chesp, 4WD reliability and performance is outstanding. The 4.0 is bulletproof and the transmission shifts perfectly. It sucks on gas mileage, not a luxury car ride. There are a lot around which is testimony to their reliability.
 
Originally Posted By: HoosierJeeper
x2. Funny that the Jeep bashers think their infinite wisdom trumps anyone else's experience.

You say you've had a good Jeep = you're a lucky dummy, they're all bad
You say you've had a bad Toyota = sometimes you get a bad one

They ignore that there's millions of satisfied owners of both and either properly maintained will be a great vehicle.


Exactly.
 
Originally Posted By: sifan


My son is into the 3rd year of his 8 years contract with U.S. Marine Corps as a reservist who currently enrolls in the West Virginia University with a full scholarship. Despite of 1 semester delay due to boot camp training he expects to graduate in 3 and half years on time.


It sounds like your son deserves a "well done" for his efforts, as does his dad giving up 2 weekends a month. Probably Uber hasn't made it to Morgantown WV...
 
I'm originally from Morgantown, WV and went to school at WVU for a while, so I know that road well. A FWD with snow tires will handle the hills and I would suggest a Cavalier or Cobalt. Both are very reliable, get good mileage and will get the job done.
 
If you've actually spent 20K on what sounds like pretty minor stuff over eight years and less than 100K on a Subaru Legacy wagon (what this car actually is), then your dealer has seriously abused you.
Sorry, but it is what it is.
It wouldn't have cost that kind of coin to maintain a Ferrari.
Find a better source of service and repair and use this fairly young Outback.
There is no better car in bad winter conditions than a Subaru.
Any Jeep is a second best choice and the flat six Subie will leave most Jeeps for dead in any contest of acceleration.
We currently have three Subies, two of which are in my sig, so I don't speak of Subaru reliability, durability or capability without cause.
 
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