Broken Frame on Ram 3500 Dually Hauling Truck Camper

[fantastic]

Broken Ram 3500 Dually Shows a Camper Can Still Overload a Big Truck

This Ram 3500 is awaiting a $17,000 repair job after an enormous slide-in camper snapped its frame.

www.thedrive.com

I haul a TC myself & thought these accidents were interesting... There is a braking point that's for sure. These triple slide campers should never be put on a 1 ton unless your reg cab, 2 wheel drive, & gasoline engine.

Even my Non Slide Lance puts my Dually GVWR right at it's max GVWR.

What do you all think? Does Ram build a fully boxed frame all the way to the rear like Ford does starting in 2017?

 

[SubLGT]

The owner should have taken his vehicle to the scales for a weight check. He claims it was not overloaded, but has no data to prove it.

...It's impossible to know the exact rating of Pavel's truck without having all the details regarding the trim and options, but Ram's spec sheet shows the payload capacity for a 4x4 diesel dually as maxing out at 5,850 pounds.
You flirt with disaster when you have a camper that weighs 4,900 pounds empty, plus weeks worth of gear inside. It's important to keep in mind that payload doesn't strictly refer to bed capacity, either; it also includes weight inside the cabin like passengers, boxes, and so on. Each axle has its own listed maximum as well—a lot of this camper's weight hangs off the rear of the truck—so it's crucial to visit somewhere like a CAT scale that breaks down the load weight comprehensively. Pavel told me he hasn't taken the truck and camper combo across any scales to verify the total weight...

 

[Trav]

GM/Chevy at one time built a camper special with a large floating axle diff and very heavy frame. It was built for this, that short bed Ram is no where near being capable.

 

[supton]

"Of course, Mexican roads—I don't know if you're familiar with Baja—they are very bumpy," Pavel told me. "They're definitely kind of back and forth, and there's dips and stuff. We averaged 55-60 mph on the two-lane roads, which are very narrow, and there's no shoulders at all on the Baja roads, for the most part. So we were very cautious."

so a mechanic came to inspect the damage. Using the camper's jacks, Pavel was able to level the rig, and the mechanic welded it roadside the best he could

Hard driving at load? even if in spec, at what point is it just hard on everything?

Sounds like it started cracking, then makeshift repairs. Any chance the welding may have further contributed? heat treatment being altered, etc.

How much of that weight was behind the bumper, acting as a lever?

 

[mrsilv04]

This is the end result of when stupid people refuse to acknowledge that they really need a "plan B"... but instead just push on assuming that the end result of their stupidity will automatically become the problem and the financial responsibility of someone else. Even the guy who welded on the frame could clearly see what the problem was.

A cousin wanted to buy a huge 5th wheel toy hauler. Salesman asked him what he was going to pull it with. He pointed to his 3/4 ton truck in the parking lot. Salesman said "Nope... you won't leave here pulling it with that truck". And that was the end of it. Dealer flat out refused to sell it to him.

Some RV dealers are doing it right.

 

[MParr]

Should have set it up for a Fifth Wheel.

 

[MParr]

Ford once made an F-350 Camper Special. The rear axle was moved farther back on the frame.

 

[RhondaHonda]

GM/Chevy at one time built a camper special with a large floating axle diff and very heavy frame. It was built for this, that short bed Ram is no where near being capable.

That isn’t a shortbed, it’s an 8’ bed. It just looks small under that massive camper. That thing was definitely overloaded plus even more weight hanging off the back of it. He needs a Ram 5500 with 10k payload.

 

[Chris142]

I bet it wiggles more than the shop truck I posted about.

 

[DuckRyder]

Ford once made an F-350 Camper Special. The rear axle was moved farther back on the frame.

That was a "Super Camper Special", they made F250 and 350 Camper specials.

Looks like dude has a motorcycle in a hitch carrier hanging off the already long rear overhang. Truck is well over capacity I would bet.

 

[tyman]

Broken Ram 3500 Dually Shows a Camper Can Still Overload a Big Truck

This Ram 3500 is awaiting a $17,000 repair job after an enormous slide-in camper snapped its frame.

www.thedrive.com

I haul a TC myself & thought these accidents were interesting... There is a braking point that's for sure. These triple slide campers should never be put on a 1 ton unless your reg cab, 2 wheel drive, & gasoline engine.

Even my Non Slide Lance puts my Dually GVWR right at it's max GVWR.

What do you all think? Does Ram build a fully boxed frame all the way to the rear like Ford does starting in 2017?

Of course it would be a Ram owner.

 

[dnewton3]

Details on this will be the telling factor.

The spec sheet (linked in the article) shows different payload max capacity for many different configurations. I'm going to assume it's a 3500 long bed 4x4. What we can't see is the engine in the chassis; believe it or not, you lose payload if you get the "HO" (high output) engine. If he has the HO engine, his max payload is 5590 lbs. If it's the low-power Cummins, it's actually rated higher at 5850 lbs.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD_3500_D2_Trailer_Tow_Weight_Chart_MY20.pdf

The camper dry weight is 4917 lbs

Eagle Cap 1165 — Eagle Cap

www.eaglecapcampers.com

Given that it can hold 66 gal of water (525 lbs) AND 60 gal of propane (240 lbs), (plus a lot of other personal stuff, etc), plus what looks like a small motorcycle hanging off the back (probably 300 lbs there alone). We don't know exactly how much water and propane were onboard at the time of the event. Given that camper is so large and can hold a LOT of stuff, when you add clothing, cooking pots/pans/ other camping gear such as camp chairs, etc, etc, etc ....

I could EASILY see this camper/gear combo getting to 6000 lbs of true weight or maybe more. I suspect he's over-weight, but by how much would depend upon a few details we can't see in the photo and the article does not tell us.


Part of the truck-owner's complaint will be based on what the dealer told him ... You know how sales guys can be; tell them what they want to hear so you can sell the truck!

 

[LDB]

The burden lies with the owner who unfortunately failed due diligence or perhaps with those who sold him the combination that was improper and inadequate for intended use. If RAM pays under warranty or his insurance pays then he is one lucky bum and all of us are paying in higher costs to recoup the improperly paid expense.

 

[JHZR2]

Hard driving at load? even if in spec, at what point is it just hard on everything?

Sounds like it started cracking, then makeshift repairs. Any chance the welding may have further contributed? heat treatment being altered, etc.

How much of that weight was behind the bumper, acting as a lever?

Even the gen II ram trucks had frame repair guidelines in their FSMs. And there was guidance about overheating the frame.

IIRC, even in the gen II trucks, the frame steel was different thickness between the different weight ratings. I’d have to imagine that it’s only improved since then.

GM/Chevy at one time built a camper special with a large floating axle diff and very heavy frame. It was built for this, that short bed Ram is no where near being capable.

Agree, I recall seeing those options in the old brochures. That said, one would hope that a dually 3500 pickup would have all of that handled. I know a number of folks that tow really heavy, wel above GCWR on their Gen II dodge rams, these newer ones should be more capable.

I wonder if the frames on the 4500/5500 ram trucks are the same?

 

[Slick3914]

This thread reminds of the lady on here years ago that wanted Ford to buy her a new V10 when her old engine wasn’t maintained properly.

 

[DuckRyder]

The linked FCA document i did not find higher trim spec 4x4 Crew Cab DRW 8.0 bed trucks on, equipment will reduce capacity.

I also find it interesting that on Eagle Caps website every 1165 photo i see is on a least an F450.

 

[fantastic]

Details on this will be the telling factor.

The spec sheet (linked in the article) shows different payload max capacity for many different configurations. I'm going to assume it's a 3500 long bed 4x4. What we can't see is the engine in the chassis; believe it or not, you lose payload if you get the "HO" (high output) engine. If he has the HO engine, his max payload is 5590 lbs. If it's the low-power Cummins, it's actually rated higher at 5850 lbs.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/Ram_HD_3500_D2_Trailer_Tow_Weight_Chart_MY20.pdf

The camper dry weight is 4917 lbs

Eagle Cap 1165 — Eagle Cap

www.eaglecapcampers.com

Given that it can hold 66 gal of water (525 lbs) AND 60 gal of propane (240 lbs), (plus a lot of other personal stuff, etc), plus what looks like a small motorcycle hanging off the back (probably 300 lbs there alone). We don't know exactly how much water and propane were onboard at the time of the event. Given that camper is so large and can hold a LOT of stuff, when you add clothing, cooking pots/pans/ other camping gear such as camp chairs, etc, etc, etc ....

I could EASILY see this camper/gear combo getting to 6000 lbs of true weight or maybe more. I suspect he's over-weight, but by how much would depend upon a few details we can't see in the photo and the article does not tell us.


Part of the truck-owner's complaint will be based on what the dealer told him ... You know how sales guys can be; tell them what they want to hear so you can sell the truck!

Everything I've learned about Truck campers is that they are much heavier once loaded as I'm sure you're already aware of as I believe you're an RV owner as well. This TC is at least 6500lbs easy!

When I read the article about the guy saying "I knew the payload capacity on the truck was about 7,800" I knew he was clueless but responsibility ultimately relies on him. The truck & camper brochures are weight listed to make the sale that's for sure. I just can't wrap my head around him thinking it really has 7,800lbs of payload but the brochure must have gotten the best of him unfortunately.

Another thing about these big campers is that the Center of Gravity has moved further back to the rear of the truck behind the rear axle. No longer in the COG "range" the truck manufacturer's finds acceptable. All the camper weight is on the rear axle only. I've seen this first hand with my truck information & the COG on some Truck Campers. Either way, I bet it was a bad day but we can be happy that no one got hurt during this breakage.

 

[fantastic]

The linked FCA document i did not find higher trim spec 4x4 Crew Cab DRW 8.0 bed trucks on, equipment will reduce capacity.

I also find it interesting that on Eagle Caps website every 1165 photo i see is on a least an F450.

Perhaps Eagle Cap advertises better than the others but I've scoured many different camper manufacturers over the years & they were always showing a 3/4 or 1 ton single rear wheel loaded with their heaviest camper line in the ads.

 

[fantastic]

Even the gen II ram trucks had crane repair guidelines in their FSMs. And there was guidance about overheating the frame.

View attachment 133107

IIRC, even in the gen II trucks, the frame steel was different thickness between the different weight ratings. I’d have to imagine that it’s only improved since then.



Agree, I recall seeing those options in the old brochures. That said, one would hope that a dually 3500 pickup would have all of that handled. I know a number of folks that tow really heavy, wel above GCWR on their Gen II dodge rams, these newer ones should be more capable.

I wonder if the frames on the 4500/5500 ram trucks are the same?

The commercial 4500/5500 are substantially bigger, thicker, and stronger. I will exclude Ford F-450 Pickup version (one that comes with a pickup bed).

 

[dnewton3]

Everything I've learned about Truck campers is that they are much heavier once loaded as I'm sure you're already aware of as I believe you're an RV owner as well. This TC is at least 6500lbs easy!

When I read the article about the guy saying "I knew the payload capacity on the truck was about 7,800" I knew he was clueless but responsibility ultimately relies on him. The truck & camper brochures are weight listed to make the sale that's for sure. I just can't wrap my head around him thinking it really has 7,800lbs of payload but the brochure must have gotten the best of him unfortunately.

Another thing about these big campers is that the Center of Gravity has moved further back to the rear of the truck behind the rear axle. No longer in the COG "range" the manufacturer finds acceptable. All the camper weight is on the rear axle only. I've seen this first hand with my truck information & the COG on some Truck Campers. Either way, I bet it was a bad day but we can be happy that no one got hurt during this breakage.

All your points are valid.

In THEORY ... this truck camper could be VERY heavy:
- dry weight = 4917 lbs
- 66 gal water = 540 lbs
- 60 gal propane = 240 lbs
- 41 gal grey water = 336 lbs
- 41 gal black water = 336 lbs
- personal gear = 500 lbs ?
- motorcycle on rear = 300 lbs ?
Max weight in theory ... nearing 6700 lbs !!!
The theory is that one could have a full black tank, a full grey tank, a full fresh tank and full propane ... No smart RV person would do that, but in theory, that is the "max" of the liquids it could hold.

Even if he had NO liquids (only having personal gear and the m/c on the back) he's around 5700 lbs. I don't know any TC that runs with zero liquids; you either are full fresh and no grey/black on your way to the campsite, or you're near empty on the fresh tank and loaded on the grey/black on the way out.

Yeah - I think between 6200 - 6500 lbs is VERY realistic. And also well over any payload his rig was approved for.


Plus having the m/c on the back causes a rocking-couple motion that causes the frame to flex up/down (axle being the pivot) as the rig goes over road bumps and undulations. The rig is designed to have the bulk of the load over/ahead of the rear axle. I'll bet this thing was kind of light on the front end!

This guys is screwed, and honestly I don't blame Ram for denying coverage. If he wants to fight it, I'd demand a full, detailed weight be done before anything is removed.