Bringing Oil to Full Operating Temperature

[Wheel366]

What is considered operating temp? It is different per vehicle? Is there a specific temp oil needs to reach to burn off condensation? If there is, is it different per viscosity? I remember somewhere on an audi forum that oil temps have to be 200+ but I don't remember the exact number nor do I know if it was specific to audi or the model I was looking at.

For reference, my Subaru dealer told me that 180 is considered operating temp.

 

[ZeeOSix]

For reference, my Subaru dealer told me that 180 is considered operating temp.

Yep ... I'd say 180 F would be a minimum "operating temperature" and driving for at least 30 min at the temperature in order to burn off any condensation. Most vehicles run oil around 200~215 F.

 

[PimTac]

I would surmise that a oils operating temperature is when the additives are activated and working. Some need to get to a certain temperature before they do their job.

 

[Wheel366]

Yep ... I'd say 180 F would be a minimum "operating temperature" and driving for at least 30 min at the temperature in order to burn off any condensation. Most vehicles run oil around 200~215 F.

Thanks for the info. My S4 runs a lot hotter but then again it is a 2.7 twin turbo with some upgrades but also a secondary oil cooler. In the winter, it is more of a challenge with oil temps but that is to be expected. Not driving it at the moment though. It's more the Impreza that I am more concerned about.

 

[Shel_B]

What is considered operating temp? It is different per vehicle? Is there a specific temp oil needs to reach to burn off condensation? If there is, is it different per viscosity? I remember somewhere on an audi forum that oil temps have to be 200+ but I don't remember the exact number nor do I know if it was specific to audi or the model I was looking at.

For reference, my Subaru dealer told me that 180 is considered operating temp.

My understanding is that to get the moisture out of the oil, the water has to be at boiling temp or above. Here's an article that describes the situation we've been discussing.

What Is the Optimum Engine Oil Temperature?

Give your engine max protection and unlock extra power by maintaining proper oil temp.

www.hotrod.com

 

[blingo]

Some small scale activism to help on the longer trips: A warmer radiator thermostat if available from Toyota for other markets, a thermostatically controlled true bypass for an eventual oil-to-air cooler, maybe improvements to the PCV...

Ultimately get better oil, then regard the water as just the right phase-change material: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-manufacturer-around-2018.332866/post-5604438

 

[buster]

I would surmise that a oils operating temperature is when the additives are activated and working. Some need to get to a certain temperature before they do their job.

This is where Magetec/EDGE claim to have an advantage. The chemistry they use is active immediately which is not the case for ZDP and others.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I always let my vehicle warm up for about 5 minutes before going so that probably helps a lot. Typically drive around town and interstate some too as well. My temp gauge always reads normal temperature the only time it didn’t is when my thermostat went bad and it wasn’t reaching operating temperature so I replaced it and now it is going good.

 

[4WD]

Well, last I heard even thin oils start out thicker until they get hot … so I don’t think the additive package is as relevant as some marketing claims - at least when first cranked and at idle …
Oil is not vanishing … tear down an old engine and bingo

 

[tmorris1]

My understanding is that to get the moisture out of the oil, the water has to be at boiling temp or above. Here's an article that describes the situation we've been discussing.

What Is the Optimum Engine Oil Temperature?

Give your engine max protection and unlock extra power by maintaining proper oil temp.

www.hotrod.com

If that was 100% true a lot of engines would be dead. Most oil never reaches 212 in the winter here. It doesn't have to be boiling point to drive off water. Sprinkle water on a something that is 150-180 degrees and watch what happens.

 

[edyvw]

If that was 100% true a lot of engines would be dead. Most oil never reaches 212 in the winter here. It doesn't have to be boiling point to drive off water. Sprinkle water on a something that is 150-180 degrees and watch what happens.

It will reach 212 degrees unless you do ultra short trips all the time. I drive regularly in temperatures below -20, and after 10 miles, oil temperature is above 100c and fluctuates between 100-110c. Of course different cars do it differently to reach that temperature fast, but they do. In my BMW system is really complex including electric water pump and DME controlled thermostat as oil sump is really big for displacement, but it will make it there fairly fast. Wife's Tiguan is super fast in reaching operating temperature of both coolant and oil. Toyota on other hand is an issue, hence I do have block heater.
But, regardless of ambient temperature, it will get there, unless you have oil cooler radiator without oil cooler thermostat.

 

[Shel_B]

If that was 100% true a lot of engines would be dead. Most oil never reaches 212 in the winter here. It doesn't have to be boiling point to drive off water. Sprinkle water on a something that is 150-180 degrees and watch what happens.

I don't doubt you about burning off water, but I tend to. However, the article said "to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor", not just the water vapor. Do you think that to do that you'd need a higher temp than you noted?

 

[SugarMouth]

My E63S is very cold blooded. I have watched my oil temp drop as I cruise on the highway. This car can take 10-15 minutes of constant driving before it reaches above 178 or so. Many times I can make my entire drive to work (25 miles) and it will stay under 180. Summer months it sees 200+.

 

[ZeeOSix]

OP ... aren't you in California? What's the coldest temperature you're driving in?

 

[tmorris1]

I don't doubt you about burning off water, but I tend to. However, the article said "to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor", not just the water vapor. Do you think that to do that you'd need a higher temp than you noted?

In an ideal world probably yes, but you are never going to get all the contaminates out. That is the purpose of the oil additives to combat this. If you are taking lots of short trips, just change your oil every 3000 and be done with it. Your engine hasn't fallen apart in the last 9 or 10 years, so it will be fine for many more. The extra driving won't hurt, but probably equals the cost of an extra oil change.

 

[mahanddeem]

In 30s to 40s weather, my Maxima takes around 15 min to 20 min to bring oil temp to around 185F to 195F. That time includes driving in back rounds and some interstate sections.
Never seen it above 200F in winter. Even after extended drives. In summer the max I recorded was 215F in a July afternoon at a long drive-through. Coolant usual temps 190F to 208 year round.

 

[blingo]

Some small scale activism to help on the longer trips: A warmer radiator thermostat if available from Toyota for other markets, a thermostatically controlled true bypass for an eventual oil-to-air cooler, maybe improvements to the PCV...

Ultimately get better oil, then regard the water as just the right phase-change material: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-manufacturer-around-2018.332866/post-5604438

In the opposite direction: vimeo.com/511320112
Then fit some comfortable remote drain steam punk, Jay Leno's Duesenberg as an inspiration.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

As to removal of moisture from oil it is important to understand that the crankcaseS operated under vacuum(except when an engine is charged or boosted and power demand goes up where the crankcase can go positive with blow by, but quickly returns to vacuum once the throttle is backed off)

Liquids flash off at lower temperatures under vacuum. Additionally just because the sump doesn’t reach boiling point doesn’t mean the oil spilling out of the journal bearings or splashing on the underside of pistons and the cylinder wall isn’t heating well above that. so as the oil is circulating it is being heated quickly and draining back to the sump. On that journey it is mostly in a vacuum. So volatile liquids are flashing off and being pulled through the crankcase ventilation.
One could say maintaining that crankcase ventilation system And replacing the PCV periodically for example, can help assure that moisture is leaving as designed.

another thing to consider is that the crankcase never really ventilates without make up air. vapors are hanging around In the crankcase under vacuum until some additional volume comes in Where does the make up air come from? Blow by. So tune and Complete combustion is very important Because what enters the combustion chamber also enters the sump.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

duplicate

 

[ZeeOSix]

another thing to consider is that the crankcase never really ventilates without make up air. vapors are hanging around In the crankcase under vacuum until some additional volume comes in Where does the make up air come from? Blow by. So tune and Complete combustion is very important Because what enters the combustion chamber also enters the sump.

Fresh make-up air comes in from the positive crankcase ventilation system's fresh air line (usually on opposite valve cover), which gets filtered air off the intake duct after it's been filtered (ie, downstream of the air filter). Every PCV system has a dirty and clean side. Dirty side gets sucked into the intake manifold to be burned, and the clean side is the fresh filtered make-up air.