Breaking people of the 3000 mile oil change habit

[Patman]

I think we are fighting a losing battle. The oil industry and car makers are going to win, they have simply pumped people's heads full of this 3k/3mo interval that it's too hard to convince people to change. I try hard, but I realize I'm fighting a losing battle. Here is my latest attempt: http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=002470#000017 You'll see that some people just won't let go of old habits.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Patman, You certainly try to see to it that there is never a dull moment on this forum. I tend to change the oil in the 4 cars I maintain about every 3k. I know the oil is good for at least another 1 or 2k, so why do I change it? Because folks like you on these forums get me so worked up about trying new lubricants that I just can't wait. I know you, of all people understand!

 

[csandste]

The guy who's changing Mobil 1 at 3K mile intervals is just throwing it away IMHO, but whatryagoindo? I keep my Elantra on a 4K dino schedule and up the mileage to 5K on a Topaz with 150K+ and a Cavalier with 78K. Both engines are ancient technologically and shouldn't be pushing any SL oil very hard. If I was running Mobil 1, I'd feel relatively safe in doubling these figures, but would be very uneasy with Amsoil's extended claims.

 

[MolaKule]

Patman, Part of the problem is people are brainwashed and the other part is people either don't see the efficacy of used oil analysis, or are not educated to used oil analysis and its benefits.

 

[dragboat]

I think again it is how the car is used. If the car gets driven every other day,for very few miles and winds up with say 1100 miles at 3 months I would be concerned that the sulphuric acid would have depleted the oils additive package "the ingredient in the package that neutralizes the acid" making for a change near mandatory. Carbed cars would be the most likely for this but even the FI cars all have a different cold start injector or enrichment period of time. So,,agree with Molakule,,a analysis is cheap insurance. I recommend [email protected]

 

[dickwells]

You know, at one time when money was short, I dreamed up a scheme to "cascade" Mobil 1 through the three cars in my fleet at 3K mile intervals. After all the oil would only have 9K on it when I took it out for the last time. Then I though, why not drain it through a TP filter I have had laying around? I didn't follow through but I still think its viable. I wonder how long it would take 5 quarts to seep through a TP roll with just a head of a couple feet? Anyway I may give it a try one of these times. RW

 

[Patman]

I know so many people that run Mobil 1 and change at 3k intervals that I just want to shake my finger. I try to tell them, but they won't listen. At least if they ran it to 5-6k they'd be getting their money's worth. Even worse, I know guys who put in fresh Mobil 1 just before they put their cars away for winter storage (which is a good thing, you want fresh oil in there at this time) but then they immediately change that perfectly good oil 3-4 months later when the car comes out of storage!! Now that is a waste of perfectly good oil. The least they could do is something like Dick suggests, recycle it into another car!

 

[VaderSS]

People crack me up. I say I run 7500, with Mobil 1 oil and filter, and they look at me like I just mouthed sacrilige. With conventional oils, I still tend to aim at 3000, but if I hit 4k, I don't worry either. Much depends on the way a car is run though. The cars I run conventional in have grandma at the wheel, so low miles and no high speed. I ran conventional in the Impala to 5k(oil that came with the car), and it still had not gotten dark.

 

[bretfraz]

Well, I have a slighly differing viewpoint. I don't want the old oil in my engine much longer than 3-4K. Is it still lubricating? Yeah, probably. Is it still suspending soot and carbon particles and dumping them into the filter? I hope so. Is it still neutralizing acids? Hell, I don't know but I hope so. Now, I know all of you want to say, "get the oil analysed and find out", but what if I don't want to do that? The cost of Terry's analysis is more than a Mobil One/Pure One oil change. Any small cost savings incurred by extending change intervals has been wasted on the price of an analysis; I haven't done the math but off the top I'd say the cost uses whatever savings from extended intervals. The money simply doesn't matter to me. I'd care if an oil change costs, like, $100 but I can do it under $25. I've never paid more than $4.00/qt for Mobil One. I buy my filters when they go on sale for well under $5.00 for a Pure One. To me this is cheap insurance and probably the best cost/benefit maintenance an owner can do for their car. So, yeah, I'm yankin' out the M1 at 3-4K and no more. No big deal to me. I'd much rather have the old stuff out (regardless of how well its still performing) than try to extend intervals in order to obtain some benefit that is not either tangible/measurable or has no value to me. My #1 goal is to have a perfectly running car with an engine that is receiving the best lubrication possible. If it costs me a couple bucks more per year, that's money more than well spent in my book.

 

[wtd]

Patman, Why is it that Blackstone labs recommends changing my Mobil 1 every 3,000 miles because of my analysis results?. I think making a blanket statement that synthetics can easily go over 3,000 miles before being changed is a dangerous assumption. In some vehicles it may be true, but in others it might not. I would love to go over 3,000 mile changes with the oil I have been using, but according to my analysis results, this doesn't seem to be a smart thing to do. Wayne

 

[SteveD2]

Patman: You don't mention if you are speaking about Mobil 1 or not, but I use dino and follow the OEM severe sequence of 3K miles or three months for the oil. [I'll just throw in these prices to tweak those in the Great White North. The company I then worked for, had a plant in Scarborough and I used to get up to Ontario regularly in the late 60's and early 70's, when the Canadian dollar was worth MORE than the US dollar! It really was ...] From a dino point of view: 5 quarts of SuperTech (API-SL) @ .84US/quart and one SuperTech filter @ $1.97US - add the local tax and my cost is $6.57US for a personal oil change. Being retired, the labor cost while painful, is relatively low - just lost fishing time

 

[UncleS2]

Why would you try to "convert" them? With oil changes, too often is *much* better than too seldom. And, as I've learned(from *both* sides!), few things are more unwelcome than advice that wasn't asked for. Especially w/dino, there's nothing wrong w/3-4K changes. If folks want to do that w/synthetic, why not? It's their car, their $$, & sometimes it's really needed. Besides, if my analyses indicates the Schaeffer's blend is good to 5 K miles(or*maybe*6K!) I'll be plenty happy with that. Oh, I forgot: "...we are fighting a losing battle..."; In the immortal words of that Great American, Tonto, "What do you mean 'we', paleface?" Sorry, couldn't resist. [ July 29, 2002, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Stuart Hughes ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by wtd: Patman, Why is it that Blackstone labs recommends changing my Mobil 1 every 3,000 miles because of my analysis results?. I think making a blanket statement that synthetics can easily go over 3,000 miles before being changed is a dangerous assumption. In some vehicles it may be true, but in others it might not. I would love to go over 3,000 mile changes with the oil I have been using, but according to my analysis results, this doesn't seem to be a smart thing to do. Wayne

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It is true, a blanket assumption like that can be dangerous, however in 99.9% of the cases, a 3k interval is not going to cause a good synthetic to be worn out. I saw your oil analysis results and wondered why Blackstone felt that the Mobil 1 wasn't any good. What was the TBN? Oxidation levels? Just because your iron levels were high doesn't mean the oil itself was bad. Perhaps that is simply the way your engine will always wear, no matter what oil.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Stuart Hughes: Why would you try to "convert" them? With oil changes, too often is *much* better than too seldom.

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I guess I'm just trying to make these guys more aware, and find out why they feel that 3k is so necessary. If they just did one oil analysis, and found out that their oil was still in perfect shape at 3k, then they could safely extend the intervals and in the long run they'll save money, time and there will be less oil wasted. Sure it doesn't hurt the engine to change it more often, but if you'd get the same results by going longer on the oil, why not at least look into it? My problem is that most of these people are making the decision based on what they've been told by Jiffy Lube, not because they have actual data showing that what they do is the best interval.

 

[JonS]

I just returned from London England. While there, i asked a co-worker from there, when they change their oil. He said every 10,000 miles. And that , he said was with dino oil. It has been that way for many years. With synthetic, they go all year. They also use 10-30 for the 10k dino changes.

 

[Spector]

I have been trying for years to have fellow employees try synthetic with longer drains. I have shown them lab reports (one car is even a company car) but there are three factors. The owners manual, their tradition (parents, father, mechanic all told them this when they turned 16)and the cost. They juat do not want to pay the price. A $25 oil change every 3-5000 just suits them fine. So, I have given up. Plus, their cars last just as long as mine so they see no added benefit.

 

[wtd]

Patman, Thats my point. If I followed your recommendation to change my Synthetic every 6,000 miles, I might be damaging my engine. Should I just ignore the recommendations of Blackstone labs and assume they have it out for Mobil 1? I thought thats what oil analysis was supposed to be used for. To help determine how the oil is holding up and if it can be extended before changing. My lead is what is high, not the iron. It could mean that the Mobil 1 is not doing a very good job of protecting my bearings or as you suggest, it might be normal wear for this engine. TBN was still good at 12.5 but my viscosity was again on the high side at 61.8 SUS @210 degrees. I don't know what this translates into for cST @100 degrees C. Wayne

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Spector: I have been trying for years to have fellow employees try synthetic with longer drains. I have shown them lab reports (one car is even a company car) but there are three factors. The owners manual, their tradition (parents, father, mechanic all told them this when they turned 16)and the cost. They juat do not want to pay the price. A $25 oil change every 3-5000 just suits them fine. So, I have given up. Plus, their cars last just as long as mine so they see no added benefit.

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Spector is right on the money here. I have tried to convince others with the same results. So why bother?? They are happy-so thet them continue to be happy. One additional thing. I think that if your vehicle is such that the oil stays clean it is easy justifying leaving it in-oil analysis be damned.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by wtd: Patman, Thats my point. If I followed your recommendation to change my Synthetic every 6,000 miles, I might be damaging my engine. Should I just ignore the recommendations of Blackstone labs and assume they have it out for Mobil 1? I thought thats what oil analysis was supposed to be used for. To help determine how the oil is holding up and if it can be extended before changing. My lead is what is high, not the iron. It could mean that the Mobil 1 is not doing a very good job of protecting my bearings or as you suggest, it might be normal wear for this engine. TBN was still good at 12.5 but my viscosity was again on the high side at 61.8 SUS @210 degrees. I don't know what this translates into for cST @100 degrees C. Wayne

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This translates into 10.81cst at 100c. I agree, doing oil analysis is the best way to determine intervals, but I really do question Blackstone's interpretation of your results. Why do they think that the oil was to blame? The viscosity was perfectly fine for a 10w30 or 5w30 oil, and the TBN looks great. Without having the oxidation level, it's hard to say what the condition of the oil was, but chances are good that the oil wasn't bad. So it could be a mechanical thing. Have you done another recent analysis on a different oil? Sorry about the mistake with the lead and the iron, I always get those two mixed up!

 

[msparks]

I try every day to break people of the habit. Hence my saying "change your thinking not your oil" Check out my truck: www.lube-direct.com/pictures/truck_r_side.jpg This should work [ July 29, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]