Breaking in new engine..dino? syn?

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Hello, I've read in more than one place that it's better to run a few OCIs with dino/conventional oil since it allows for better break in of seals and rings etc. I plan on doing an OC on my 09 WRX at 1000 miles, but I was wondering if I should do one more 3-4k OCI with dino (Penzoil YB?)? Is there validity to this break in on conventional or just here say? I'm open for opinions from both sides and/or resources that explain this concept. I think I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and run Rotella 5w40 syn after break in (whenever that may be).
 
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I did an early drain on my new Jeep, then ran dino oil for a second run. After that I changed to synthetic oil. You don't have to use conventional oil for a break-in. I did because I was doing short OCI's and conventional oil is cheaper. Many new cars come with a FF of synthetic oil.
 
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 Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I did an early drain on my new Jeep, then ran dino oil for a second run. After that I changed to synthetic oil. You don't have to use conventional oil for a break-in. I did because I was doing short OCI's and conventional oil is cheaper. Many new cars come with a FF of synthetic oil.
Agreed. To the OP - Use whatever oil you want for break in. Old wives tale that you can't break in on synthetic. Only issue you may run into is if the auto mfg used a special break in oil( additive )as FF like Honda has done/does. In that instance follow the mfg's instructions for the 1st OC just because they are using a special oil/additive and you don't want any hassle with them for messing with that. If no special FF oil was used by the mfg you can drive home and do a swap to synthetic and you are fine. I have personally rebuilt engines and used synthetic from the very 1st fill. No problems.
 
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I made sure Jeep didn't use a break in oil. I left the FF in for 500 miles, then ran dino again until 2000 miles. After that changed to synthetic oil. This has been discussed a lot, and there are many different opinions on this topic.
 
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 Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I did an early drain on my new Jeep, then ran dino oil for a second run. After that I changed to synthetic oil. You don't have to use conventional oil for a break-in. I did because I was doing short OCI's and conventional oil is cheaper. Many new cars come with a FF of synthetic oil.
\:\! Yep. If you read the article in Hot Rod magazine, it has a tour of the Corvette factory. They actually use Mobil 1 synthetic as an assembly lube. I have broken in new engines with synthetic since 1988. The day, before it has time to cool, I bring the car home from the dealer, I drain the factory fill, fill with Mobil 1 synthetic, install a Wix filter, and drive happy.
 
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 Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Hello, I've read in more than one place that it's better to run a few OCIs with dino/conventional oil since it allows for better break in of seals and rings etc.
My crazy and irrelevent opinion is that it really doesn't matter, except I'm one to do the first drain (or two) early and it isn't cost effective to drain synthetic early. SO, I recommend a robust dino oil for the first oil change or two. If a person wants to go synthetic after that, it's all depends on the owner and the application.
 
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You do not need to "break in" your engine on Dino oil. Period. (slight exception is for Hondas) Fact: many engines (Corvette, Volvos, probably the German makes) are factory filled with synthetic. I'm pretty sure the Honda S2000 is factor filled with M1. The theory was that synthetic is so slippery that your rings would not seat properly - so use dino until the rings are seated. Personally I think it was a marketing ploy by some synthetic sellers to give the illusion that synthetic was more slippery. Synthetic is not more slippery - although its stability can allow you to use a lower weight range to cause less friction: hence the birth of "0W" oils I have heard a defense by one synthetic purveyor that claimed it was true in the old days... but now with superior cylinder finishing techniques it is not neccessary. Supposedly Hondas are factor-filled with special break-in additives and they recommend you leave the original oil in place per the OLM.
 

09rexwagon

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Great, thanks for the quick replies. The Subaru FF has no additives like Honda (but UOAs on the FF show high moly from assembly lube most likely). Maybe I'll do this 1000 mile FF OCI and then a ~2000k on PYB and the switch to Rotella 5w40 syn.
 
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I started using Synthetic oil back in 1978. On a new vehicle I run the factory fill about 3,000 miles as I see no reason for an early change. Then use Synthetic oil. Could change it to Synthetic before but see no reason for the need.
 
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Red Line (a trusted company) has an opinion to offer when using their oil for a new vehicle: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line Oil? "We recommend using petroleum 10w30 motor oil on break in to ensure proper piston ring seating. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred." This was taken directly from their website. Maybe it's only in relation to their oil with it's high quality base? Red Line would have nothing to gain by telling folks NOT to use their product until 1500 to 2k miles are on the odometer.
 
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 Originally Posted By: andrewg
Red Line (a trusted company) has an opinion to offer when using their oil for a new vehicle: Can I break-in my engine on Red Line Oil? "We recommend using petroleum 10w30 motor oil on break in to ensure proper piston ring seating. If you allow 1500 to 2000 miles in a street engine or 20 to 30 minutes on the dyno at low rpm, the rings will have had sufficient time to seat and the high initial break-in wear will have occurred." This was taken directly from their website. Maybe it's only in relation to their oil with it's high quality base? Red Line would have nothing to gain by telling folks NOT to use their product until 1500 to 2k miles are on the odometer.
Actually, they would have a lot to gain if someone did a lousy job assembling the engine and something went wrong. People in this country are sue happy. All it would take is one ambulance chaser type to tell someone the engine failure was due to breaking the engine in on synthetic to cause Redline a whole world of problems if Redline said go ahead. By saying use 10W-30 conventional oil they avoid any possibility of issues by saying you can use their oil for break in. I would bet you that privately/off the record you would be told something different by the folks at that company. It doesn't hurt Redline in the least to say use dino oil for break in then use our oil. Other companies say the same while others say use it from day one. Too much evidence showing it is ok to do it to not do it. Car mfg's would not use synthetic from day one if it possibly could be an issue with break in.
 
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We bought at 09 Saturn Vue last month and I did the first oil change at 1430 km or 880 miles. It's always been a habit of mine to change the factory fill at around 1600 km or 1000 miles. I do this more for any grit left over from the assembly process and of course iron from the cylinder walls until the rings are seated. I just used the dealer oil (shell 5w30) for now then at 5000 km again. At 10000 km I'll then switch to synthetic.
 
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 Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Hello, I've read in more than one place that it's better to run a few OCIs with dino/conventional oil since it allows for better break in of seals and rings etc.
That's one of the unkillable urban myths about syn oil. The others are: It doesn't mix well with dino oil. It makes seals leak because it's molecules are so tiny. You have to "flush" the engine if you want to change oil types. None are true. Use any type oil to break in, it makes absolutely no difference.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Kruse
 Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Hello, I've read in more than one place that it's better to run a few OCIs with dino/conventional oil since it allows for better break in of seals and rings etc.
My crazy and irrelevent opinion is that it really doesn't matter, except I'm one to do the first drain (or two) early and it isn't cost effective to drain synthetic early. SO, I recommend a robust dino oil for the first oil change
I agree with that. I dump the first oil load after rebuild (or new engine) at 100 miles and I wouldn't waste syn oil for that. Interesting that some companies are using "break in "additives and some are not. I will definitely be adding some ZDDPlus to the breakin oil I use in the future now that nearly all oils have eliminated zinc. I also run it in my motorcycle, but I think a new car engine would benefit from it as well.
 
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 Originally Posted By: bountyh
 Originally Posted By: Kruse
 Originally Posted By: 09rexwagon
Hello, I've read in more than one place that it's better to run a few OCIs with dino/conventional oil since it allows for better break in of seals and rings etc.
My crazy and irrelevent opinion is that it really doesn't matter, except I'm one to do the first drain (or two) early and it isn't cost effective to drain synthetic early. SO, I recommend a robust dino oil for the first oil change
I agree with that. I dump the first oil load after rebuild (or new engine) at 100 miles and I wouldn't waste syn oil for that. Interesting that some companies are using "break in "additives and some are not. I will definitely be adding some ZDDPlus to the breakin oil I use in the future now that nearly all oils have eliminated zinc. I also run it in my motorcycle, but I think a new car engine would benefit from it as well.
Zinc hasn't been eliminated just the allowable parts p/million has been lowered. API SL 5W-30 = 1100 ppm max allowed API SM 5W-30 = 800 ppm max allowed The new API SN = ?????
 
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 Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Zinc hasn't been eliminated just the allowable parts p/million has been lowered. API SL 5W-30 = 1100 ppm max allowed API SM 5W-30 = 800 ppm max allowed The new API SN = ?????
And, if I'm not mistaken from reading here, other compounds have been introduced into the mix to retain wear performance. ZDDP is ONE alternative, there are others out there that don't destroy cats.
 
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Good points about Red Line's position on initial oil fills. It seems to me a stretch to say it is all about liability, though. I have to believe some reasoning is behind the recommendation to use dino besides saving their behinds.
 
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