BREAKING: C&D picks Accord over Camry and Sonata in battle of hybrid sedans

This is an older video but I think it does the best job of explaining the Toyota Synergy drive, for those interested. I think there the only of the 3 that does this. Does the Ford system work this way also?

The only interest I might have in a hybrid is being able to run the AC without having to idle the engine - an ongoing problem while waiting at the mall.

 
No real surprise that C+D finds the Accord the best of these three. At least they're consistent.
I'm happy with my HAH after 117K and find it comfortable with good cornering and really low operating costs.
To my eye, the current Gen 11 has a very sleek and refined look and is easily the looker in this group.
Overall, any one of these would be a good pick as a daily commuter, especially for those with longer commutes.
Of course, the buyer would have to eschew the thinking that the minimum acceptable daily driver for any man is a half ton pickup or a large SUV and go against that currently dominant school of thought.
 
Lol. Type in Hyundai reliability and let us know what you get.

I mean, it looks to me kind of middle of the pack: not great, consodering it's behind BMW, but not that bad either. Though wen it comes to German brands like BMW, I think lack of knowledge and other factors that are basically a lack of maintenance on the part of the owner are to blame. A BMW can last a long time if you take care of it.

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Toyota has been building hybrids for a long time. Dunno how the other cars are, but my guess is Toyota makes the best hybrids. I had an Accord Sport which was a lotta car for the money.
 
I mean, it looks to me kind of middle of the pack: not great, consodering it's behind BMW, but not that bad either. Though wen it comes to German brands like BMW, I think lack of knowledge and other factors that are basically a lack of maintenance on the part of the owner are to blame. A BMW can last a long time if you take care of it.

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Consumer Report's reliability is a matter of factory readiness rather than long-term wear, defects, etc sort of reliability. People are surveyed and asked to report issues. Even with this lower standard--because true reliability would require 20 years of use or failure before then--, Hyundai coming in at 56 is not a good look.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...umer-reports-car-reliability-faq-a1099917197/
 
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Toyota has been building hybrids for a long time. Dunno how the other cars are, but my guess is Toyota makes the best hybrids. I had an Accord Sport which was a lotta car for the money.
Ford worked with Toyota as far back as 2011 on truck hybrids etc. Ford is right up there with the best..Ford licensed some hybrid controls back in 2004....( From Toyota)
 
This is a good review. Honda has better driveability, Toyota is faster. Personally, I've been considering a Civic hybrid, which has a very similar drivetrain. Hard to go wrong either way.

 
Consumer Report's reliability is a matter of factory readiness rather than long-term wear, defects, etc sort of reliability. People are surveyed and asked to report issues. Even with this lower standard--because true reliability would require 20 years or use or failure before than--, Hyundai coming in at 56 is not a good look.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...umer-reports-car-reliability-faq-a1099917197/
Yet all the "Chrysler" products drop the ball in short-term reliability . There is a dumping ground about 30 miles west of me out in the country where I'm guessing there is 15,000 new ram truck sitting . Keeping a lot of mice happy for the winter .
 
Yet all the "Chrysler" products drop the ball in short-term reliability . There is a dumping ground about 30 miles west of me out in the country where I'm guessing there is 15,000 new ram truck sitting . Keeping a lot of mice happy for the winter .
It's not completely mutually exclusive. Some company that doesn't care about factory defects or failures in a short time may also not be all that interested in making a durable, long lasting vehicle. But it's not a full substitute or "magic" to make them equivalent meanings of reliability. It's more of a that if it is probable they suck at these, then then it is probable they will suck long term.
 
This is a good review. Honda has better driveability, Toyota is faster. Personally, I've been considering a Civic hybrid, which has a very similar drivetrain. Hard to go wrong either way.


I have some comments, or you can call it "cope" about that review:

1. I didn't see how the MSRP of the two cars compared. The Accord was a lower-level model, and they bashed on its monochromatic interior, lack of rear A/C vents, and poor sound quality - all addressed on higher trims. Some higher trims even have more sound dampening. It's well known that Toyota has a more a la carte approach to options and Honda packages them together more. I am guessing the Camry was a more expensive car.

2. I don't think they really understand how the Honda hybrid system works.

At 26:54: "And there is a high-speed clutch that will connect the gasoline engine to the regen motor, to the direct-drive motor so they're in a series, or connected - all three - to provide the most horsepower, at 204 horsepower. And it's less than the Camry and it makes less torque than the Camry..."

If the high-speed clutch is engaged, the car is actually a parallel hybrid; when it's disengaged it's a series hybrid. (This kind of excessively verbose and sloppy language is common in the review - do they write this stuff out ahead of time, or are they ad-libbing?)

The truth is, the clutch engages an overdrive cruising gear. Its purpose is to provide highway cruising economy, not to maximize power. When the clutch is engaged, the engine is turning at about 1000 rpm per 30 mph of road speed - it will not be at an optimum rpm for power. When maximum power is demanded, the clutch will be disengaged, the engine will rev up to drive the generator at peak engine power and the 181-hp traction motor will be propelling the car - using a blend of power drawn mostly from the generator but supplemented by the battery.

"It makes less torque than the Camry" - manufacturers' claimed torque is higher in the Accord. This includes torque from the electric motor, so not sure if it's a fair comparison. But the bigger traction motor does make it feel torquey.

At 37:10 in the video: "So you can hear those shifts... It's using the high-speed clutch to engage and disengage the engine to allow it to drop down and come back up. So, it really does - because it's a mechanical clutch it does feel like a gearbox shifting."

And they acted in the video like the one-gear, two motor Honda hybrid system is something new, when it has been around since 2014. Yes, it's been revised over the years but the basic layout is the same as 2014.

3. They said the Toyota was faster, but there was no actual testing. Testing shows the Honda is slightly quicker in most acceleration measures (0-60, 50-70, quarter mile) - there's that EV-like torque! That said, the Accord's power drops off at high speeds and the Camry is about three seconds faster 0-100.

4. Sport mode in the Accord might actually be faster in the kind of driving they were doing, since it keeps the battery more topped off and the cells are able to deliver more power.

5. I actually like the taillights. But then my favorite taillights are flush: 90s 300zx, 6th gen accord coupe, 8th gen civic sedan.
 
That guy drove the Toyota like a maniac. Yes YouTube reviewers hardy every get it right describing Honda's hybrid powertrain. Those two are a little cocky , but all in all usually do decent reviews . Most of the time they lift the cars up so you get to see the underside which is nice .
 
I like the looks of both cars, so it wouldn't weigh in as a huge factor for me. I don't really need all-wheel-drive in a commuter sedan. To me, it's just more moving parts to break, and more things that require maintenance. If I need all four wheels turning, I have a 4WD truck in the driveway. Both are CVT, and only the Honda offers a non-hybrid option. No more 2.0L turbo for the Honda and no more 3.5L V6 for the Camry.

For my money, I'd probably take the Accord, not sure what powertrain though. I'd generally steer toward the non-hybrid version, but I've heard the 1.5T has some reliability issues, so maybe going with the hybrid 2.0L would be the better option.
 
That guy drove the Toyota like a maniac. Yes YouTube reviewers hardy every get it right describing Honda's hybrid powertrain. Those two are a little cocky , but all in all usually do decent reviews . Most of the time they lift the cars up so you get to see the underside which is nice .
Yeah, I was picking on the review, but it did cover a lot. I think they should have bashed the Honda harder for not having height-adjustable passenger seat.
 
I like the looks of both cars, so it wouldn't weigh in as a huge factor for me. I don't really need all-wheel-drive in a commuter sedan. To me, it's just more moving parts to break, and more things that require maintenance. If I need all four wheels turning, I have a 4WD truck in the driveway. Both are CVT, and only the Honda offers a non-hybrid option. No more 2.0L turbo for the Honda and no more 3.5L V6 for the Camry.

For my money, I'd probably take the Accord, not sure what powertrain though. I'd generally steer toward the non-hybrid version, but I've heard the 1.5T has some reliability issues, so maybe going with the hybrid 2.0L would be the better option.
They are called ECVT but nothing in common with a conventional cvt in any way
 
I like the looks of both cars, so it wouldn't weigh in as a huge factor for me. I don't really need all-wheel-drive in a commuter sedan. To me, it's just more moving parts to break, and more things that require maintenance. If I need all four wheels turning, I have a 4WD truck in the driveway. Both are CVT, and only the Honda offers a non-hybrid option. No more 2.0L turbo for the Honda and no more 3.5L V6 for the Camry.

For my money, I'd probably take the Accord, not sure what powertrain though. I'd generally steer toward the non-hybrid version, but I've heard the 1.5T has some reliability issues, so maybe going with the hybrid 2.0L would be the better option.
I'm not sure if the electric rear drive assist really needs maintenance on Toyota hybrids. But the wiring was a weak spot in RAV4s. I went many, many years before acquiring an AWD vehicle last year - but I have found it to be useful in a couple of occasions already.

If I was buying one of these new, I'd probably lean Camry. Not sure if Honda has solved their head gasket issues. AND - hot take incoming! - I feel like their unique hybrid system is just another example of Honda having to be different (possibly due to patent reasons) rather than using the best possible design to make a car (see Honda non-planetary automatic transmissions).
 
I'm not sure if the electric rear drive assist really needs maintenance on Toyota hybrids. But the wiring was a weak spot in RAV4s. I went many, many years before acquiring an AWD vehicle last year - but I have found it to be useful in a couple of occasions already.
That may be, I didnt think of that. When I think AWD, I'm thinking another differential that needs gear oil changed and CV axles, a driveshaft with u-joints and probably a carrier bearing that are all prone to wear. But if a motor from the hybrid system is placed in back, it might eliminate a lot of that.
 
That may be, I didnt think of that. When I think AWD, I'm thinking another differential that needs gear oil changed and CV axles, a driveshaft with u-joints and probably a carrier bearing that are all prone to wear. But if a motor from the hybrid system is placed in back, it might eliminate a lot of that.
I looked it up - it does have a differential with fluid that requires changing, as well as CV axles. Pretty sure there's no driveshaft though.
 
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