Break in

When I bought my FZ07 new in 2016 I broke it in per motoman... varying throttle including full, lots of decel, just kept RPMs below redline. First day put on 120 miles and changed the oil. Then changed it again at 500 and then 1000... all with Rotella 15W-40. Now running either 5W-40 M1 TS or 15W-50 M1

No issues or consumption now with 10k miles on it.
 
Anyone seen those videos of the new bikes coming off the assembly line, being fired up and then ran on a dyno through the gears to redline? That's the initial break-in. 😄
 
When I bought my FZ07 new in 2016 I broke it in per motoman... varying throttle including full, lots of decel, just kept RPMs below redline.
That's what matters, and that's how I've always done it but I just do the first oil change at 500~600 miles. My bikes never get more than 3,000 miles on an oil change anyway, so really not worried about too long of OCIs.
 
All right there, I didn't know you've worked at any type of motor vehicle dealership, that never had vehicle returned for motor or warranty problems. I guess by your logic they're new , and therefore perfect. And I guess you've never heard of a warranty claim being denied due to unapproved parts being installed. Like aftermarket exhaust systems, air cleaners, camshafts, tuners and the like. If you pay a dealer to do any performance work to your new vehicle, they will more than likely tell you your warranty is over. So if you return your newly purchased vehicle to the dealer and it's making more motor noise then it should, you can be certain they will more then likely disassemble it, and find the cause of the noise. Excessive wear will be clearly visible and a determination will be made of why it happened. And more importantly, who is going to pay for the repair. This is nothing new ,it happens all the time.,,
With respect, how many motorcycles with engine issues have you seen returned in the 50 miles stated and been denied a warranty claim. I am not seeing this discussion is about unapproved parts being installed, we were talking about due to visual inspection and determining incorrect break-in.

If electronics can record RPM, who’s to say the mechanic putting the bike together didn’t blip the throttle, who’s to say at the factory it wasn’t revved up during the initial dyno run (as I have said before and ZeeOSix repeated nicely to help make this point) or someone took it for a test ride heaven forbid and ran the balls off it for 5 miles. Heavens, how many bikes would be void of warranty after test rides, lol.

Sorry, engine braking, accelerating, decelerating up through the rpm range for the first 25 miles and then maybe doing it again for another 25 miles is going to break in everything with respect to that engine. 25 miles is not cut and dried, however it’s to get the point across that keeping the piston rings expanded against the cylinder wall under accelerating and decelerating is what an engine needs right off the bat.

No one else has chimed in yet, although it is stated it happens (warranty being denied under the circumstances being discussed) all the time. Come on guys, where is everyone?
 
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Anyone seen those videos of the new bikes coming off the assembly line, being fired up and then ran on a dyno through the gears to redline? That's the initial break-in. 😄

Yes and in person...

I lived in Japan for 3 years and I made the pilgrimage to every Honda
factory on the Island... They would build a bike in 12 minutes then
run it to red line on the rollers you see in the pic... it's not bike
abuse but employing what's need to seat the rings in accordance with the
engineers and designers...

I routinely visited Honda's Saitama Factory where the CBX was
produced... The CBX was not only their pride and joy but more
importantly held the status as their number 1 bike... Each bike was
assembled by a select team of their finest workers... If a fork leg
some how became scratched it was no longer worthy of their number 1
bike and without pause it would be scrapped and replaced... the fork
would sent to Pops smelter and be returned as a block of aluminum...
Ever CBX upon completion was rolled into the green dyno room... they
would run the engine to red line and go up the gears and number of
times...

I asked about the "break it in gently" warning in the owners manual
and the replay was the "break it in gently" are written by their
corporate lawyers not by their engineers... if you follow their engine
rebuild steps in their official shop manual there are no reference to
any "break it in gently" warnings...

Are there any telltale things look for that could indicate the rings are done seating???

Yes... take a compression check if the engine shows factory compression then ring seating is good...

12mintoredline-jpg.30452

full-45634-35078-saitamacbx.jpg

RingSeating1.jpg
 
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Funny coincidence. My friend when and bought a used Arai helmet today off a guy. They got to chatting and sure enough the guy used to race the Ducati. He's been to the Ducati plant and he said they will run the bikes up to red line for 3 minutes and do that 3 times in total. That was the break in. Said the break in by the manual is hog wash.
 
Every car, truck or motorcycle that I've bought new got driven pretty hard at times (for short periods) during the "break-in" period. All of them turned out to be strong running engines that didn't use much if any oil. There's a difference between a "not babied" break-in and beating it to death.
 
Funny coincidence. My friend when and bought a used Arai helmet today off a guy. They got to chatting and sure enough the guy used to race the Ducati. He's been to the Ducati plant and he said they will run the bikes up to red line for 3 minutes and do that 3 times in total. That was the break in. Said the break in by the manual is hog wash.
Yeah, but supposedly they’re going to take the engine apart and determine within 50 miles that you didn’t break it in right... he said tongue in cheek...
 
The right way to break in a new engine is by following the manufacturers instructions in the owners manual.
The wrong way to break in a new engine is follow wonton advice in a forum. :whistle:
 
I've generally followed Harley's advice in breaking in all my new bikes. All 6 of them over the years.
I take it easy and change rpm's for 500 miles. But after that, I SEAT those rings :)
 
I don’t need too
No I know you don't. But until you get an engineer in here who designs these bikes then opinions are just opinions. There is a lot more to the "what's in the manual" than is led to believe. Why does a Honda CBR break in have such a less restricted break in than a Ducati. You telling me Honda's are WAY better?
 
ringseating1-jpg.54015


The agreeable points whether you ask the factory engineers or engine builders or savoy customers...

"The cylinder walls of a new engine are not mirror smooth as one might imagine. A special hone is
used to put a diamond like pattern of "scratches" over the entire area of the cylinder wall. The
cross hatch treatment of the cylinder walls plays an important role in proper break-in of piston
rings to cylinder walls. I mentioned that B.M.E.P. was necessary to the "break-in" process. Here is
how it works."

"If you cutaway a piston, ring and cylinder wall and inspect under magnification you see something
to the effect of "saw teeth"... Given that a film of lubricating oil holds the piston ring away
from the cylinder wall. Proper break-in of piston ring to cylinder wall requires that the ring rupture
or break through this oil film and make contact with the cylinder wall. During such "metal to metal"
contact, the little peaks on the ring face and cylinder wall become white hot and rub off. This
condition will continue to occur until the ring face and cylinder wall have established a smooth
compatible surface between each other. At this point, break-in is said to be relatively complete and
very little metal-to-metal contact will occur hereafter. In fact, as the break-in process
progresses, the degree of metal-to-metal contact will regress."

"There is one little "sticky wicky" in this process, that film of lubricating oil is there to prevent
metal-to-metal contact. That's exactly what it will do and really that's what we want it to do.
However, during the break-in process, we must have some minute metal-to-metal contact as
previously explained. Therefore, rupture of the oil film is necessary. The factors under the owners
control can retard this necessary rupture are low power and babying the engine..."

"During the normal break-in process the points or ridges of the honed-in scratches are partially
worn away. During the actual oil-film rupture, only the ridges on the piston rings and cylinder
walls contact each other. The little "valleys" between the ridges retain a film of oil and thereby
prevent a total dry condition between piston ring and cylinder wall. B.M.E.P. or combustion
pressure forces the ring against the cylinder wall. This is the "key" to the break-in process. You
can see then that low power (low B.M.E.P.) won't provide the same results and the break-in
process will require a longer period of time. However, time in this instance will have a detrimental
effect on your engine because any prolonged, low power break-in procedure usually leads to
"glazed" cylinder walls."

"During each power stroke, the cylinder walls are subjected to very high temperatures, often 4000
degrees F or higher. This period is very brief but nevertheless, long enough to cause oxidation of
minute quantities of some of the lubricating oil on the cylinder walls. Some of this oxidation will
settle into the "valleys" of the honed cylinder wall "scratches." Eventually this situation will fill
the "valleys" of the cylinder walls creating a smooth, flat surface. This is also a normal situation;
however the ring break-in process practically ceases when these valleys become filled or "glazed"
over."

"If this "glazed over process occurs before break-in is complete, in modern day language, "you
have had it." Excessive oil consumption resulting from incomplete ring seating will present itself
and the only certain remedy is rehoning the cylinder walls. This is both expensive and unnecessary."

My best advice is if you wish to know for *sure* the state of break in on your new bike then take a compression test... if the engine shows factory compression then ring seating is done... if you don't see factory compression then I advise more high revs to punch though the oil film...
 
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Just like the time-honored JASO certified vs. HDEO oil with only the words “meets JASO” . There are folks that go by the book and there are folks that go by what experience and proof show. Experience and proof isn’t going to convince the rule followers. Still haven’t seen any more about the piston scuffing warranty denial at 50 miles. No one seems to be able to say it’s happened. Even though the mechanic may have revved the engine, the manufacture probably took it up to redline or well above “break-in” recommendations before it shipped or that it may have gone on a WOT test ride.
 
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