So I think I'm going to break my new bike in motoman method. The problem is my street fighter requires 15w50 Jaso Ma2 SPI SN. Now try and find mineral oil with those specs. Impossible. The closest I think I've come is JASO MA2 SPI SJ. Would this be detrimental if I used SJ instead of SN?
Break in
- Thread starter Monsoon
- Start date
I would read the owners manual on how they want their/your new engine run-in. Ed
MA2 and the grade are all that matter
Oh trust me. I know how they want their bike broken in. Whether people agree with it or not is another matter.
My guess is your new bike has a cat and they want the newer lower ZDDP levels to prevent poisoning it. I would not be too concerned and even go so far as to say the older spec may be better as a break in oil. If this is a shared sump then its not just the motor but the gear box thats being broken in as well.
Mineral what for. Just drive the motorcycle there is no voodoo needed to break in an engine. Let it warm up before wot and the for a few hundred to a thousand mile, miles, don't hold wot for a long period of time. 99.99999% of expensive commercial application engines are put into service and run as necessary and live long long lives. Use the recommended oil rating.
Just amazes me how we disregard the manufactures recommendations and substitute our own. Manufactures probably have much data regarding cylinder wall, piston and bearing temperature vs load which us self appointed experts don't have access to. Just due what makes you happy. Ed
Part of me WANTS to agree with you Eddie. Why hasn't any engineer come on any forum I have ever read or have been interviewed and asked their opinion. I've read tonnes of posts from people who rebuild engines and hear their opinions. Why are the engineers so quiet? Here's my Ducati by the book break in. 0-1000 km. 6000 rpm. 1000-2500..... Yes 2500...... 7000 rpm. Here's what I've owned in the last 10 years all brand new bike.
2011 Yami R1
2012 Kawi ZX14
2012 Gixxer 600
2013 Suzuki Boulevard M109
2014 Victory Gunner
2014 Harley VROD
2017 BMW S1000RR
2020 Triumph Rocket 3
2021 Ducati Street Fighter (getting this week)
2021 BMW S1000R
I broke all these bikes in strictly by the book. I can say I've never burned oil but then again I always sold them with about 6-8000 km so barely broken in. Each bike was a bit different on break in. But the Ducati, and ALL Ducatis, whether v2 or v4 or one red lines at 10K the other at 15k all have the exact same break in. To me that doesn't sound right at all. Typically the smaller the engine, the higher the break in rpm limit. Heck my gsxr at one stage was 9000 max and the s1000rr. Your just about hitting red line on the ZX14 at that point (11000). So I can see why each bike will have a specific break in period. Why not the Ducs. To me it sounds like there is more legal crap in a break in than science. What's your opinion on it?
2011 Yami R1
2012 Kawi ZX14
2012 Gixxer 600
2013 Suzuki Boulevard M109
2014 Victory Gunner
2014 Harley VROD
2017 BMW S1000RR
2020 Triumph Rocket 3
2021 Ducati Street Fighter (getting this week)
2021 BMW S1000R
I broke all these bikes in strictly by the book. I can say I've never burned oil but then again I always sold them with about 6-8000 km so barely broken in. Each bike was a bit different on break in. But the Ducati, and ALL Ducatis, whether v2 or v4 or one red lines at 10K the other at 15k all have the exact same break in. To me that doesn't sound right at all. Typically the smaller the engine, the higher the break in rpm limit. Heck my gsxr at one stage was 9000 max and the s1000rr. Your just about hitting red line on the ZX14 at that point (11000). So I can see why each bike will have a specific break in period. Why not the Ducs. To me it sounds like there is more legal crap in a break in than science. What's your opinion on it?
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Well, for one thing engineers usually work for a specific company. So they have to design a product that has to perform. If they didn't tell the purchaser to break their motors in easy, there's a very good chance they would be fixing alot more motors then necessary. And paying alot of dealers for doing the work. Not to mention the bad rap their brand would get for being known for having a trouble prown motors. Now that motorman guy has had his site saying to wring your motor out right out of the box, for years. So if you do as he suggests, and your motor starts knocking or smoking or making all sorts of funny noises, he's NOT going to fix it. And he's NOT going to pay for the parts or the labor either. So if your motor goes south on you, and you bring it back to the dealer and say somethings wrong with it, it's up to them to determine what happened. If during their investigation the notice excessive scuffing and discoloring of parts in you bike with 50 miles on it, and the oil level is fine, and it has adequate oil pressure, the only other explanation they can come up with is improper break in. Which is not covered in your warranty. Now if you plan to pay for and do all your own repair work, please disregard all of the above.,,,
All right, let’s get out the stick and locate that dead horse. I’ve never heard of anyone taking a bike back in the first 50 miles and have them pull apart the engine and say there’s piston scuffing. Great argument but anybody know of that happening, ever? Anyone here, please chime in, ever been denied a warranty claim on a motorcycle with respect to an engine within the warranty period? Anyone here ever had a warranty claim on an engine in a new bike?
Now, first off, what bike is it? Wondering what you are gonna be getting to enjoy?
Secondly, the bikes are run on a dyno at most manufacturing facilities regardless of who makes them. With respect to the piston and cylinder walls I am sure they pretty much have most of the initial break-in done when that bike hits the showroom floor. With respect to the gearbox and possible shaft drive I think there is more merit to the break-in process. I think we forget there are more things than just the pistons/rings mating to the cylinders.
In any case, I have never purchased a bike new but when I have put in high compression pistons and started new in that respect, as soon as I start the bike up and can verify nothing is leaking I am off and riding, either under some type of acceleration or some type of deceleration. No steady state, those rings love to be expanded against the cylinder walls under acceleration and deceleration with oil splashing all around on the cylinder walls and those rings expanded.
Once the bike has a few miles of accelerating and decelerating and comes up to temp, I start working my way up the RPM range in the lower gears, letting it brake itself back down to a lower speed, etc. doing that for 25 or 30 miles. Take it out the next day and do a similar ride, change the oil around 800-1000 miles and never look back.
Now, first off, what bike is it? Wondering what you are gonna be getting to enjoy?
Secondly, the bikes are run on a dyno at most manufacturing facilities regardless of who makes them. With respect to the piston and cylinder walls I am sure they pretty much have most of the initial break-in done when that bike hits the showroom floor. With respect to the gearbox and possible shaft drive I think there is more merit to the break-in process. I think we forget there are more things than just the pistons/rings mating to the cylinders.
In any case, I have never purchased a bike new but when I have put in high compression pistons and started new in that respect, as soon as I start the bike up and can verify nothing is leaking I am off and riding, either under some type of acceleration or some type of deceleration. No steady state, those rings love to be expanded against the cylinder walls under acceleration and deceleration with oil splashing all around on the cylinder walls and those rings expanded.
Once the bike has a few miles of accelerating and decelerating and comes up to temp, I start working my way up the RPM range in the lower gears, letting it brake itself back down to a lower speed, etc. doing that for 25 or 30 miles. Take it out the next day and do a similar ride, change the oil around 800-1000 miles and never look back.
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Nice bikes!
In a nutshell, take them out and vary the RPM under load with acceleration or deceleration for the first few rides, then just start riding them like you want to.
My Yamaha XSR900 owner's manual says oil should be API SG or higher, and JASO MA. It also has a catalytic converter. I've used Valvoline 4-stroke conventional and Castrol Power 1 full synthetic, which both are rated as API SL and MA2. No problems.
All right there, I didn't know you've worked at any type of motor vehicle dealership, that never had vehicle returned for motor or warranty problems. I guess by your logic they're new , and therefore perfect. And I guess you've never heard of a warranty claim being denied due to unapproved parts being installed. Like aftermarket exhaust systems, air cleaners, camshafts, tuners and the like. If you pay a dealer to do any performance work to your new vehicle, they will more than likely tell you your warranty is over. So if you return your newly purchased vehicle to the dealer and it's making more motor noise then it should, you can be certain they will more then likely disassemble it, and find the cause of the noise. Excessive wear will be clearly visible and a determination will be made of why it happened. And more importantly, who is going to pay for the repair. This is nothing new ,it happens all the time.,,
Motoman: “One of the most critical parts of the engine building process is the break in !! No matter how well an engine is assembled, it's final power output is all up to you !!”
I should apologize to my machinist for being so picky all those years, the secret was in the break in and I didn’t know.
I should apologize to my machinist for being so picky all those years, the secret was in the break in and I didn’t know.
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
The 2021 BMW in my sig, the owners manual states the that the oil should be API SL/Jaso MA2.
I would just like to know from an engineer's standpoint why there is such many differences in engine break in between manufacturers. Surely the engines can't the that different. Seems to me the manufacturers are using the latest and greatest in metallurgy tech. Here is my 2021 BMW break in recommend
Big difference in what Ducati recommends. Almost lose faith in the Ducati engineering if their break in is so delicate. Btw can anyone explain what BMW means in that last statement "observe milage, after which running-in check should be performed. Mileage until run in check 500...1200kn)?
Big difference in what Ducati recommends. Almost lose faith in the Ducati engineering if their break in is so delicate. Btw can anyone explain what BMW means in that last statement "observe milage, after which running-in check should be performed. Mileage until run in check 500...1200kn)?