Break in, Oil and New Honda Civic Si ADVICE PLEASE

[Cicero]

Just once I'd like to break an engine in "right", especially this high rev K20z3. REALLY would appreciate some solid informed experienced advice.

Delivery of my '07 Si first week in October. (Can't believe I started out looking for an economy car.) I'm not going to race about nor baby this high reving engine. Honda specs a Xw30(?). Open to suggestions about any oil, OCI's, etc. Dino'd dumped often OK, what-ever. The Oil monitor system is new to me.

BREAK IN PLAN.
I'll try the..."run it up faily hard (put some firm pressure on the rings) from 20 to 60 mph and let it idle back down to 20 mph...do that ten to twenty times method". File in the piston rings and seat them hard against the machine hatching in the cylinders. Yes? No? Then drive it home "easy" the rest of the 50 miles between 60-75 mph. OPEN TO BETTER SUGGESTIONS.

 

[Bebop]

FWIW. Honda is starting to use Mobile One in the RDX as a factory fill.

 

[novaracer69]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[PW01]

You probably don't need to, but I'd give it 1000 miles and drain it. Then fill it with Mobil 1 (whatever viscosity Honda calls for), and change every 5000.

 

[XS650]

Most Hondas tell you to keep the factory fill in the engine until the normal change mileage. The good people at Honda might actually know something about their engines.

You can improve on the owners manual break in a bit by doing a moderate throttle accelerations then backing off the throttle.

 

[zardozfromoz]

I prefer a slower approach to running in, taking around 1500 miles to slowly creep up on the redline, always varying throttle and load under acceleration and deceleration. But there's basically two schools to running in. One suggests hitting it hard and fast, and the other is my preferred approach. My approach seems to have worked well on my last engine rebuild, so I can recommend it.

No matter what approach you take, don't underestimate the importance of letting the engine wind down under its own compression during the run-in period. It's just as important as accelerating, because it allows the rings to wear from both sides. This will break things in quicker, and more effectively.

As for oil choices, a previous poster has suggested that Honda know what they're talking about, and I agree with that. However, if you want to change the oil, I'd advise changing before 1000 miles, and then using a high quality low additive monograde 30 weight oil, such as this Pennzoil product, and keeing the OCIs short for the first 10,000 miles. If you're keen, do UOA's every 2,500 or 5,000 miles to establish a wear trend.

[ September 13, 2006, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: zardozfromoz ]

 

[INDYMAC]

Honda makes great engines (and cars too). As mentioned in a previous post, the engineers at Honda that designed and built your new engine probably know how to break-in the engine for optimum performance and reliability. Read your owners manual and follow the instructions for breaking in your new car (engine RPM's, brakes, draining the break-in oil, etc.). You won't be disappointed. If your owners manual states "DO NOT CHANGE OUT THE BREAK-IN OIL EARLY!" (like my S2000), then keep the oil in there as long as you can stand it. If it states "changing the oil out early is not required because it is a high quality motor oil", then changing the oil after 1-3K miles most likely won't hinder proper engine break-in. Good luck and enjoy your new Honda!

 

[sxg6]

quote:

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Originally posted by novaracer69:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

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Please... i can't stand it when people throw that site around.

 

[1bioguy]

"I'd advise changing before 1000 miles, and then using a high quality low additive monograde 30 weight oil, such as this Pennzoil product,"


From the Pennzoil website:APPLICATION
PENNZOIL RUNNING-IN ENGINE LUBRICANT is not recommended for new vehicles or for use at normal service intervals.

PENNZOIL RUNNING-IN ENGINE LUBRICANT is used for the running in period of reconditioned motors only.

 

[427Z06]

1bioguy got this right. Follow your owner's manual. But if you must change out early, try to mimic the oil that's in there now. Havoline seems to be the favorite currently, since it's high in moly.

Note also, with the "Plateau Honing" that most new vehicles receive today, a ring breakin' procedure is a thing of the past. Save that procedure for aftermarket rebuilds. Again, follow your owner's manual.

 

[zardozfromoz]

1bioguy, it's not recommended for normal service intervals, but if you're going to use it for short intervals, specifically to watch the progress of the engine bedding in via regular UOAs, then I think it's suitable. I really don't understand why it's not recommended for brand new engines, apart from the likelihood that the maker is attempting to indemnify themselves against warranty issues due to the low additive (i.e. non lasting) nature of the oil. It is, after all, the same basic oil that they use in their other products. The only differences are the single grade nature (good shear stability) and the low additive levels (short service interval). In the case of Valvoline Running In Oil, the one I used on my recent rebuild, it only had a virgin TBN of 6. Good enough for about 3000 miles, but no longer.

What exactly is the difference between a new factory built engine and a "reconditioned" one rebuilt to original specification? Do they have magic machine tools at the factory that somehow impart different qualities to the finished items? Are they seriously trying to say that factory built engines somehow run in differently to properly rebuilt ones? Is the whole concept of blueprinting destined to produce a sub-standard engine with respect to running in procedures when compared to the factory built item? I don't think so. As 427Z06 says, the only difference is "plateau honing" where the running in is done before the engine even goes into the car. By then the oil used to run the engine in is long gone, and replaced with something that will run a longer interval. Thus using a running in oil isn't cost effective because its work is already done. Is it harmful to continue using it for a while? If the interval is kept low, no.

[ September 13, 2006, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: zardozfromoz ]

 

[RinconVTR]

READ YOUR OWNERS MANUAL...Below are 100% copy/paste FAQ's via Honda Owners Link. I own 2 Hondas, each state the same thing in the owners manual and web site. Here ya go:::::::


Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?

Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.


American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving


What is the break-in period of my Honda?

Help assure your vehicle's future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles (1,000 kilometers). During this period:

Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.
Avoid hard braking. New brakes need to be broken in by moderate use for the first 200 miles (300 km).

 

[zardozfromoz]

That Honda advice applies equally to rebuilt engines. So why would the oiling requirements be different?

As for leaving the minute particles in the oil, no thanks.

 

[goodvibes]

I like to load the engine but keep the revs down for a while and keep the top 30% of the rev range inactive until the motor feels like it's firmed up a bit. Drive normal with some decent acceleration and engine braking. Vary speed.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by sxg6:

quote:

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Originally posted by novaracer69:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

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Please... i can't stand it when people throw that site around.

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Chill, Bro. That site is the sum total "knowledge" and unholy mantra of the "run-it-like-ya'-stole-it" crowd. (These are probably the same lot who stronly urge anyone within earshot to avoid Pennzoil and Quaker State motor oils because they're full of wax. They're not - the wax content's only about 75%...

) No point chancing apoplexy over these know-it-alls and their hoo-doo witchcraft.

 

[car_junkie_moron]

Aren't hondas comes with break-in oils? AFAIK, they do. Lots of moly prolly. I would keep it as owner manual says.

 

[RinconVTR]

zardozfromoz, Honda's advice *IMO* does not apply. The factory does have very specialized equipment for "honing" cylinders, and some are using very specialized coating also, such as "plasma coating".

Not to mention, if the local shop rebuilds a motor to a cylinder finsh that doesnt match what is required for OEM rings, there are also VERY specialized coating on them too. (More often on the rings, than on the cylinders.)

All stated is my oppinion, however there is no way I'd run 7500 miles on a newly rebuilt motor before changeing the oil. And that is what Honda clearly states to do in their new factory built motors.

mototuneusa's web site statements are found elsewhere by unrelated sources in a number of magazine articles regarding motorcycle engines.

 

[zardozfromoz]

Well, I rebuilt my engine using factory spec honing. I would hope if you were trying to rebuild an engine to spec you'd do the same. If you did so with a Honda, then I would presume their "factory fill" recommendation would apply to your running in procedure. The $64,000 question is what fill is the factory fill?

Here's what I think is a hint. Look at the factory fill when you drop it after 7500 miles. Does it shimmer like the Milky Way? Highly unlikely. My first fill did after 20 minutes of static running, and my second fill did quite a bit too after only 8km of actual driving. My third fill was the first one that came out looking mostly like particulate free oil, and it was in for 900km. It also produced a reasonable first UOA.

Based on this experience, it's my guess that Honda's 7500 mile recommendation is given on what is most likely the third or fourth complete fill in the engine since it was built, and if you want to go the distance, make sure you use a highly additized oil, and not a running in oil. As for those first few fills that Honda used? They were probably something very similar to the running in oil I linked to.

[ September 13, 2006, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: zardozfromoz ]

 

[RinconVTR]

I'm not going to question Automotive and Design Engineers at Honda or any other major automotive manufacture.

They make recomendations cystal clear in plain english for consumers made by TEAMS of engineers and countless tests...not just one guys expericance, oppinion, or study.

They have warrenties (and extended warrenties) they must cover if they miscalculate and risk a tarnished name and long term costs.

But hey...do what helps you sleep at night. Its your vehical, your money.

 

[dagmando]

quote:

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Originally posted by sxg6:

quote:

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Originally posted by novaracer69:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

---

Please... i can't stand it when people throw that site around.

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No kidding... I remember reading a guy on this site did this to his (or fathers) Porsche Cayenne Turbo because this site said it was good. I think I replied that some people, for their own good, should not be surfing the internet. Imagine, taking recommendation from the unknown "Motoman" over the engineers of Porsche or Honda who build some of the most reliable engines ever created.