Brakes Spongy after replacing rear lines and some other components

[JC1]

Hi guys,

I tried searching before posting, but my scenario is a bit different.

I had to do a bunch of brake work on my 97 Honda Civic. Replaced the lines from the front proportioning valve all the way to the lines near the gas tank and flared the lines into the rear existing lines that were in good shape. I also changed the emergency brake cables, rear rubber lines, and wheel cylinders. Shoes were ok and reinstalled, and front brakes were not touched except for bleeding. Note that the lines were rusted out and the master cylinder ran dry. I know it's not supposed to, but it happened.
I checked under the car for leaks at any of the new unions on the brake lines and there are none.

When the car key is first turned to the accessory position the pedal is firm . When the car is started, then the pedal goes soft. I bled all the lines twice to make sure all the air bubbles were gone. Is the master cylinder toast? Is there anything else I can do to get the brakes back to normal?

 

[spasm3]

When bleeding ,did you let the brake pedal go to the floor, or past its usual travel? If so you may have killed the master sending it past its normal wear point.

You never want to pump the brake pedal to its full travel , or past its usual travel when bleeding.

Since it ran dry, i would unhook the lines at the master and bench bleed it using a kit like this, get the master air free THEN hook up the brake lines.

Amazon.com: Dorman 13911 Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit - 22 in. Hose, Clip, SAE and Metric Fittings: Automotive

Buy Dorman 13911 Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit - 22 in. Hose, Clip, SAE and Metric Fittings: Brake Adjusting Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

If that does not work, then a new master.

 

[JC1]

Not sure, my teenage son was pressing the pedal. He said he pressed it as he normally would.

 

[sloinker]

Power bleed if you can or gravity bleed if you can't, make sure your rear shoes? are actually adjusted against the drums with good physical drag and noise. When the car is running have someone press the pedal and check for air right at the master cylinder fittings by cracking those lines.

 

[JC1]

Power bleed if you can or gravity bleed if you can't, make sure your rear shoes? are actually adjusted against the drums with good physical drag and noise. When the car is running have someone press the pedal and check for air right at the master cylinder fittings by cracking those lines.

I will try that tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[JC1]

When bleeding ,did you let the brake pedal go to the floor, or past its usual travel? If so you may have killed the master sending it past its normal wear point.

You never want to pump the brake pedal to its full travel , or past its usual travel when bleeding.

Since it ran dry, i would unhook the lines at the master and bench bleed it using a kit like this, get the master air free THEN hook up the brake lines.

Amazon.com: Dorman 13911 Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit - 22 in. Hose, Clip, SAE and Metric Fittings: Automotive

Buy Dorman 13911 Master Cylinder Bleeder Kit - 22 in. Hose, Clip, SAE and Metric Fittings: Brake Adjusting Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

If that does not work, then a new master.

Thanks for the link.

 

[spasm3]

In the second method, of this video, i think he should have had more fluid in the resevoir for this.

 

[Trav]

Hi guys,

I tried searching before posting, but my scenario is a bit different.

I had to do a bunch of brake work on my 97 Honda Civic. Replaced the lines from the front proportioning valve all the way to the lines near the gas tank and flared the lines into the rear existing lines that were in good shape. I also changed the emergency brake cables, rear rubber lines, and wheel cylinders. Shoes were ok and reinstalled, and front brakes were not touched except for bleeding. Note that the lines were rusted out and the master cylinder ran dry. I know it's not supposed to, but it happened.
I checked under the car for leaks at any of the new unions on the brake lines and there are none.

When the car key is first turned to the accessory position the pedal is firm . When the car is started, then the pedal goes soft. I bled all the lines twice to make sure all the air bubbles were gone. Is the master cylinder toast? Is there anything else I can do to get the brakes back to normal?

All the above plus I would add speed bleeders to the project. Pump it up quite a few times with the engine off until the pedal feels firm then let the bleeder go then press it down halfway slowly a few times.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Power bleed. Light pressure...

 

[JC1]

All the above plus I would add speed bleeders to the project. Pump it up quite a few times with the engine off until the pedal feels firm then let the bleeder go then press it down halfway slowly a few times.

Trav, do you have a link to the speed bleeders?

 

[Trav]

Check the application but these should be correct for the 97 Civic.

Front...

Amazon.com: Russell 639560 Speed Bleeder: Automotive

Buy Russell 639560 Speed Bleeder: Wheel Cylinder Bleeder Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Rear...

Amazon.com: Russell 639610 Import Speed Bleeder: Automotive

Buy Russell 639610 Import Speed Bleeder: Wheel Cylinder Bleeder Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

 

[samven]

All the above, but a fast diagnostic is to start the engine and pump the brakes until the pedal get firm at the top of travel. Then stand on them for 20 or 30 seconds and see if the pedal creeps down or holds steady. If it moves you either have a leak or bad master, if it stays you probably have air someplace.

 

[JC1]

Check the application but these should be correct for the 97 Civic.

Front...

Amazon.com: Russell 639560 Speed Bleeder: Automotive

Buy Russell 639560 Speed Bleeder: Wheel Cylinder Bleeder Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Rear...

Amazon.com: Russell 639610 Import Speed Bleeder: Automotive

Buy Russell 639610 Import Speed Bleeder: Wheel Cylinder Bleeder Screws - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Thanks Trav. I think the rear is the wrong size they use an 8mm socket or wrench to crack them open. I looked at the website and I think the correct part number is 639530 for the drums but their website is wrong.

 

[Trav]

You can get them from most auto parts stores just take an old one with you.

 

[Snagglefoot]

By the way, the link showing the Edelbrock and Russel bleeder screws show a coating on the threads. Where can a guy get that coating ? It looks like it was applied very uniformly, almost like it was sprayed on. That coating would have to service multiple openings and closings if someone was using the two man method of bleeding the system but only one open and close if using a pressure bleeder.

 

[Jetronic]

Hi guys,

I tried searching before posting, but my scenario is a bit different.

I had to do a bunch of brake work on my 97 Honda Civic. Replaced the lines from the front proportioning valve all the way to the lines near the gas tank and flared the lines into the rear existing lines that were in good shape. I also changed the emergency brake cables, rear rubber lines, and wheel cylinders. Shoes were ok and reinstalled, and front brakes were not touched except for bleeding. Note that the lines were rusted out and the master cylinder ran dry. I know it's not supposed to, but it happened.
I checked under the car for leaks at any of the new unions on the brake lines and there are none.

When the car key is first turned to the accessory position the pedal is firm . When the car is started, then the pedal goes soft. I bled all the lines twice to make sure all the air bubbles were gone. Is the master cylinder toast? Is there anything else I can do to get the brakes back to normal?

If you have ABS on that car, there is air in the ABS module now. Needs the valves cycled to get the air out

 

[JC1]

If you have ABS on that car, there is air in the ABS module now. Needs the valves cycled to get the air out

There is no ABS on the car.

 

[andyd]

I have used both gravity bleeds and rigging an air lock with a piece of hose and a small jar of brake fluid. The air lock is the same as a speed bleeder,a check valve. Way cheaper. With the speed bleeder/or air lock, it becomes a 1 person operation. Gravity bleed, is a great way to check for leaks. When I replaced all the hard and soft lines in the Rat, I made all the unions,hand tight and chased the leaks toward the bleeders. Best pedal I ever got after a bleed

 

[Jetronic]

There is no ABS on the car.

Make sure the automatic wear regulation is working, and that it's close to where it should be before mounting the drums. As long as that's not where it should be the should will retract farther than they should and pull the brake cilinder with them. Result is long brake pedal travel.

 

[JC1]

I have used both gravity bleeds and rigging an air lock with a piece of hose and a small jar of brake fluid. The air lock is the same as a speed bleeder,a check valve. Way cheaper. With the speed bleeder/or air lock, it becomes a 1 person operation. Gravity bleed, is a great way to check for leaks. When I replaced all the hard and soft lines in the Rat, I made all the unions,hand tight and chased the leaks toward the bleeders. Best pedal I ever got after a bleed

Andyd,

Can you share some more information about this air lock? Is this is a DIY contraption?