I just bought a 1991 Peugeot 309 with a 1.4 liter carbuerated engine. The car has 88k km on the tachometer and has been sitting in a yard for 2 years. I checked the oil and it's at full level and black like it should be, however I don't know when it's been changed for the last time and I don't know which oil should go into such an old-styled engine. If I should change it should I change the other fluids and filters too?
Bought an old car: Should I change the oil and what should I use?
- Thread starter Glam_Stachee
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Sitting for 2 yrs and you have no history. Definitely change the oil. Start fresh and establish a base line for all your fluids. Unless they look fresh I'd address trans and ps fluid, trans filter, coolant, rear diff, and probably brake fluid. Not all gas powered vehicles turn the engine oil black in a short period of time...some might appear semi-transluscent even at the end of the OCI. Other things to consider would be fuel, engine air, and cabin filters. For a car this old in which you have little history, best to start fresh if you have doubts as to the age or condition of routine maintenance items. You might have original drive belts and hoses on that vehicle...nearly 30 yrs old. Those should be closely inspected.
You should be able to google the required engine oil for this car. One source I found suggested 0/5w-40...probably an A3/B3, quality European mfg specs. Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Plat Euro, and others.
You should be able to google the required engine oil for this car. One source I found suggested 0/5w-40...probably an A3/B3, quality European mfg specs. Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Plat Euro, and others.
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Yeah I checked a website for oil and I'm surprised it said that I should use 0W oil, I don't know much about engine oil but shouldn't these old engines use heavier oils? That's why I asked here. I checked the other fluids and it all looks clean, except the coolant seems a bit low, but I had to drive it over half the country to get back home and it never overheated on the highway, and I don't want to add some more coolant I have laying around as to not mix different ones. The hoses don't look original and they're all clean and sturdy, so I'm not worried about them. The guy I bought it off said he just took the car from an old friend who was too old to renew his license, and that he was never late on regular maintenance, but that guy didn't do much to the car. I found some sale records which say that a new battery and tires were bought in 2015, so I'll assume that's the last time the car was serviced as well.
Yesterday I drove her to a mechanic who knows his way around these old engines to tune the engine so it wouldn't stall when it's cold even at full choke, and he said the worst thing on the car is that it needs a wash, the engine itself is great and that I shouldn't waste money changing anything for another 5000 kilometers.
Yesterday I drove her to a mechanic who knows his way around these old engines to tune the engine so it wouldn't stall when it's cold even at full choke, and he said the worst thing on the car is that it needs a wash, the engine itself is great and that I shouldn't waste money changing anything for another 5000 kilometers.
The 0W rating on the oil is only for cold/startup conditions. At normal operating temps (hot) the 40 applies (0w-40) which is a fairly thick/viscous oil. A3/B3 0w-40 oils meet the specs of high powered BMW's, Audi, Mercedes, etc. If you're unsure what coolant is in there you can always add demineralized/deionized water for now. Just ensure you have enough cold weather freeze protection when done. Others might be able to chime in on the coolant type you should need...as the color of the coolant isn't by itself enough. Though for a car as old as yours, the green IAT coolants were still the norm. But that doesn't mean a subsequent owner couldn't have upgraded to an OAT/HOAT type coolant since then. Your owner's manual or sticker on the reservoir should tell what OEM coolant was.
I'd only put so much faith in the previous owner's claims about regular maintenance from an earlier seller. I mean, would you buy the car if they told you they had no clue as to maintenance history or that the previous owners were lax? You're the owner now. Do what you're comfortable with. If I found ANY of fluids looking old/bad, I'd just assume I couldn't trust them to have changed them when due.
I'd only put so much faith in the previous owner's claims about regular maintenance from an earlier seller. I mean, would you buy the car if they told you they had no clue as to maintenance history or that the previous owners were lax? You're the owner now. Do what you're comfortable with. If I found ANY of fluids looking old/bad, I'd just assume I couldn't trust them to have changed them when due.
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What's the weather like where you live? And what is the oil buying situation, do you have big chain auto parts stores?
I would do a fairly cheap oil change now, just to get a baseline, and to flush old crud out of the engine. As you get that carburetor tuned you can poison your new (or old) oil with soot and stuff.
In 1991 they only had green silicated coolant, so I would seek that out. Maybe next summer do a week of water flushes every day with the last day being one you put antifreeze in.
I would do a fairly cheap oil change now, just to get a baseline, and to flush old crud out of the engine. As you get that carburetor tuned you can poison your new (or old) oil with soot and stuff.
In 1991 they only had green silicated coolant, so I would seek that out. Maybe next summer do a week of water flushes every day with the last day being one you put antifreeze in.
My grandmother has the same engine in a 205 from 1992, manual recommends Total 10W40 and 15W40 oils...remember this is 1992, lol !
That's exactly what I use in hers, Total activa 7000 10W40. For me cheap and perfectly suited to the climate she lives in, she does like 1000Km per year so I change yearly.
Factory OCI is 12500Km/ 7500Km for severe service, I'd say change often because of fuel dilution, and otherwise it's a pretty solid engine! Fairly modern when it was conceived, and PSA kept it for many many years with some improvements (mostly fuel injection and cat). Sometimes when warm it's a bit finicky to start, manual says when hot starts pedal to the flour and it should start within 5s of cranking (if well tuned, it does). There was even a sticker on the windshield to remind you to do that.
If you live in a colder climate, you can consider a 0W40 or a 5W40 oil. My 5W40 choice would be Total again, Quartz 9000 energy, it's on the thicker side of a 40.
The GT version of that engine, with double barrel carb was a bit finicky to start I remember (probably also due to poor maintenance...and/or bad memories frommy childhood). Total had a 10W50 oil (still exists) for that engine.
The 309 behaves even better than the 205, these were really fun cars to drive! Between the rolling coffin that were the Citroën AX Sport or GT, the more comfortable 205 and 309...up to the 1,9 16V engine in the 309 S16, so much fun!
Edit: as for the coolant, no idea, and I don't have the manual with me. I remember some blue coolant...it's an aluminum engine and probably copper radiator. Motul has a blue universal coolant, otherwise go to a Citroën dealer (for some reason parts were always cheaper at Citroën) and take some of their special PSA blue coolant. Probably overkill, but it's not expensive.
Don't forget the gearbox's oil. Motul or Total 75W80 GL4, if memory serves right.
That's exactly what I use in hers, Total activa 7000 10W40. For me cheap and perfectly suited to the climate she lives in, she does like 1000Km per year so I change yearly.
Factory OCI is 12500Km/ 7500Km for severe service, I'd say change often because of fuel dilution, and otherwise it's a pretty solid engine! Fairly modern when it was conceived, and PSA kept it for many many years with some improvements (mostly fuel injection and cat). Sometimes when warm it's a bit finicky to start, manual says when hot starts pedal to the flour and it should start within 5s of cranking (if well tuned, it does). There was even a sticker on the windshield to remind you to do that.
If you live in a colder climate, you can consider a 0W40 or a 5W40 oil. My 5W40 choice would be Total again, Quartz 9000 energy, it's on the thicker side of a 40.
The GT version of that engine, with double barrel carb was a bit finicky to start I remember (probably also due to poor maintenance...and/or bad memories frommy childhood). Total had a 10W50 oil (still exists) for that engine.
The 309 behaves even better than the 205, these were really fun cars to drive! Between the rolling coffin that were the Citroën AX Sport or GT, the more comfortable 205 and 309...up to the 1,9 16V engine in the 309 S16, so much fun!
Edit: as for the coolant, no idea, and I don't have the manual with me. I remember some blue coolant...it's an aluminum engine and probably copper radiator. Motul has a blue universal coolant, otherwise go to a Citroën dealer (for some reason parts were always cheaper at Citroën) and take some of their special PSA blue coolant. Probably overkill, but it's not expensive.
Don't forget the gearbox's oil. Motul or Total 75W80 GL4, if memory serves right.
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It sounds as though you can gradually work your way through changing all of the car's fluids.
I'd be inclined to change the oil at once and using an A3/B4 OW-XX is probably a good idea although I'd bet you'd also be fine with a less costly Grp II 10W-40 with more frequent drains. My understanding is that these oils are pretty cheap in Europe although not as cheap as they are here.
eljefino's suggestion about how to deal with the coolant is a good one and would help to ensure a clean cooling system. Just remember to leave the heater on if this car has a heater control valve (many later cars don't) as this will flush that core as well. After a thorough flushing any coolant should be okay to use.
With the kind of mileage this car has, you've surely gotten one of the better survivors of the model to be found anywhere in Europe.
I'd be inclined to change the oil at once and using an A3/B4 OW-XX is probably a good idea although I'd bet you'd also be fine with a less costly Grp II 10W-40 with more frequent drains. My understanding is that these oils are pretty cheap in Europe although not as cheap as they are here.
eljefino's suggestion about how to deal with the coolant is a good one and would help to ensure a clean cooling system. Just remember to leave the heater on if this car has a heater control valve (many later cars don't) as this will flush that core as well. After a thorough flushing any coolant should be okay to use.
With the kind of mileage this car has, you've surely gotten one of the better survivors of the model to be found anywhere in Europe.
I would use a 5W-40 or a 10W-40, maybe Valvoline MaxLife Syn if you have it available...
Thanks for the replies.
1.) I'm not from Herzegovina, I'm from mid-Bosnia.
2.) This year's been fairly warm, and not much snow and ice so the roads aren't covered in salt, that's why I decided to buy a new car sooner rather than later. I don't intent to drive it in such conditions, not that it would start easily anyway.
3.) I am always very skeptical about old low-mileage cars, especially since resetting the tachometer isn't a crime here, so people do it often. However if you could see the interior of the car you would be convinced, nothing is worn, nothing is dirty and nothing but a few plastic parts are lose, replacing everything to make it look better would cost a fortune and nobody would do the hassle just to sell it.
4.) I'll probably go with 10W-40 oil, since back in the day all our old Commie cars used it and this engine is basically the same tech, I'll just go with whatever certified oil I can find, as there are basically no dealerships in the entire country, let alone my tiny town, the few that are there are Volkswagen brands, no Frenchies.
5.) eljefino is right, the coolant is green, though silicated coolant is pretty rare here, most are concentrated oils, though I did get the original manual in German, which I can speak anyway, so I'll shift through it and see if it mentions what I should use. I'll defenetly flush the radiator when it gets warmer, since it's kind of the worst-looking part under the hood.
6.) The gearbox oil is the tricky part, firstly I have no idea where it's located or how to drain or fill it, and then there's the problem that almost nobody sells oil for that here, though nobody ever changes trans oil in their cars, especially manuals, even mechanics I talked to say that you can drive a manual forever without ever touching the gear oil.
1.) I'm not from Herzegovina, I'm from mid-Bosnia.
2.) This year's been fairly warm, and not much snow and ice so the roads aren't covered in salt, that's why I decided to buy a new car sooner rather than later. I don't intent to drive it in such conditions, not that it would start easily anyway.
3.) I am always very skeptical about old low-mileage cars, especially since resetting the tachometer isn't a crime here, so people do it often. However if you could see the interior of the car you would be convinced, nothing is worn, nothing is dirty and nothing but a few plastic parts are lose, replacing everything to make it look better would cost a fortune and nobody would do the hassle just to sell it.
4.) I'll probably go with 10W-40 oil, since back in the day all our old Commie cars used it and this engine is basically the same tech, I'll just go with whatever certified oil I can find, as there are basically no dealerships in the entire country, let alone my tiny town, the few that are there are Volkswagen brands, no Frenchies.
5.) eljefino is right, the coolant is green, though silicated coolant is pretty rare here, most are concentrated oils, though I did get the original manual in German, which I can speak anyway, so I'll shift through it and see if it mentions what I should use. I'll defenetly flush the radiator when it gets warmer, since it's kind of the worst-looking part under the hood.
6.) The gearbox oil is the tricky part, firstly I have no idea where it's located or how to drain or fill it, and then there's the problem that almost nobody sells oil for that here, though nobody ever changes trans oil in their cars, especially manuals, even mechanics I talked to say that you can drive a manual forever without ever touching the gear oil.
2. I don't know how cold it gets, but above 0°C that engine in good condition starts well (better than hot...). Sometimes the choke cable gets loose, so you think you put the choke but you actually didn't, it's just one screw to tighten. You don't need to keep the choke for long, you'll feel it easily. Some carbs had an automatic choke that liked to misbehave...memories, memories.
Just to be sure, yours is the 1364cm3 ? There was a 1330 something too, old OHV Simca engine, not the same animal.
3. Yup, and very easy to do (modify the odometer). The interior weren't the greatest quality, so if it's not worn, the odometer probably wasn't tampered with!
5. Pretty sure the original coolant was blue, unless what you call green I call blue! Grey/blue/greenish ...‚
6. From memory...vague memory, very easy to do. On the right side when you face the car, one pretty big drain plug you can't miss, and a refill hole, I think on top of the gearbox, but I don't remember exactly I admit. You don't even need special tools, just regular sockets.
If you can't find the appropriate oil then just don't touch it, as long as it doesn't leak. The gearbox (assuming you have the 5 speed) isn't finicky as long as there is oil in it.
Just to be sure, yours is the 1364cm3 ? There was a 1330 something too, old OHV Simca engine, not the same animal.
3. Yup, and very easy to do (modify the odometer). The interior weren't the greatest quality, so if it's not worn, the odometer probably wasn't tampered with!
5. Pretty sure the original coolant was blue, unless what you call green I call blue! Grey/blue/greenish ...‚
6. From memory...vague memory, very easy to do. On the right side when you face the car, one pretty big drain plug you can't miss, and a refill hole, I think on top of the gearbox, but I don't remember exactly I admit. You don't even need special tools, just regular sockets.
If you can't find the appropriate oil then just don't touch it, as long as it doesn't leak. The gearbox (assuming you have the 5 speed) isn't finicky as long as there is oil in it.
Originally Posted by Glam_Stachee
6.) The gearbox oil is the tricky part, firstly I have no idea where it's located or how to drain or fill it, and then there's the problem that almost nobody sells oil for that here, though nobody ever changes trans oil in their cars, especially manuals, even mechanics I talked to say that you can drive a manual forever without ever touching the gear oil.
Mechanics generally don't understand lubrication very well....unless they are subscribers to Bitog. Even manual transmissions shear down the oil and deplete the additive package. And all that original fluid at 50K miles is circulating around all the wear products and metals that have been shed over the transmission's life. Good reason to change the fluid at least once, even in a manual. Transmissions aren't cheap to fix....fluid is though. Your specced 20 grade gear oil (GL4) could be sheared down to an effective 10 grade oil by now, especially if it was conventional. And you have no clue what fluid is currently in your transmission. Could be original factory fluid....could be something else....and maybe the wrong stuff.
6.) The gearbox oil is the tricky part, firstly I have no idea where it's located or how to drain or fill it, and then there's the problem that almost nobody sells oil for that here, though nobody ever changes trans oil in their cars, especially manuals, even mechanics I talked to say that you can drive a manual forever without ever touching the gear oil.
Mechanics generally don't understand lubrication very well....unless they are subscribers to Bitog. Even manual transmissions shear down the oil and deplete the additive package. And all that original fluid at 50K miles is circulating around all the wear products and metals that have been shed over the transmission's life. Good reason to change the fluid at least once, even in a manual. Transmissions aren't cheap to fix....fluid is though. Your specced 20 grade gear oil (GL4) could be sheared down to an effective 10 grade oil by now, especially if it was conventional. And you have no clue what fluid is currently in your transmission. Could be original factory fluid....could be something else....and maybe the wrong stuff.
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Originally Posted by Popsy
2. I don't know how cold it gets, but above 0°C that engine in good condition starts well (better than hot...). Sometimes the choke cable gets loose, so you think you put the choke but you actually didn't, it's just one screw to tighten. You don't need to keep the choke for long, you'll feel it easily. Some carbs had an automatic choke that liked to misbehave...memories, memories.
Just to be sure, yours is the 1364cm3 ? There was a 1330 something too, old OHV Simca engine, not the same animal.
3. Yup, and very easy to do (modify the odometer). The interior weren't the greatest quality, so if it's not worn, the odometer probably wasn't tampered with!
5. Pretty sure the original coolant was blue, unless what you call green I call blue! Grey/blue/greenish ...‚
6. From memory...vague memory, very easy to do. On the right side when you face the car, one pretty big drain plug you can't miss, and a refill hole, I think on top of the gearbox, but I don't remember exactly I admit. You don't even need special tools, just regular sockets.
If you can't find the appropriate oil then just don't touch it, as long as it doesn't leak. The gearbox (assuming you have the 5 speed) isn't finicky as long as there is oil in it.
Most likely 1364 cm3, it's a '91 model, and the Simcas were replaced in '88 or '89, and choke works flawlessly, I checked and you can feel the engine revving faster, only the plastic cover around it cracked a bit and it annoys the [censored] outta me, I'll most likely glue the plastic back one day.
I mean does the color of the coolant really matter? Maybe they ran out of green one and put blue one in your car, or vice versa, maybe the first owner changed it to green, but it seems to do it's job, though I don't know how full it should be, when I shine a light down the hole I can see the coolant just on level with some metal/wire piece, maybe that's too low or maybe that's how much there should be, nobody knows.
And yeah, for now the transmission works great, except the first gear seems to not be syncronised, so I can't put it into first when the car is moving at all, I know some really old cars had that standard, but this seems to be too modern to not have it, not a big deal for me though, since my second car was one of those old-timey ones which didn't have it, so I'm used to it.
2. I don't know how cold it gets, but above 0°C that engine in good condition starts well (better than hot...). Sometimes the choke cable gets loose, so you think you put the choke but you actually didn't, it's just one screw to tighten. You don't need to keep the choke for long, you'll feel it easily. Some carbs had an automatic choke that liked to misbehave...memories, memories.
Just to be sure, yours is the 1364cm3 ? There was a 1330 something too, old OHV Simca engine, not the same animal.
3. Yup, and very easy to do (modify the odometer). The interior weren't the greatest quality, so if it's not worn, the odometer probably wasn't tampered with!
5. Pretty sure the original coolant was blue, unless what you call green I call blue! Grey/blue/greenish ...‚
6. From memory...vague memory, very easy to do. On the right side when you face the car, one pretty big drain plug you can't miss, and a refill hole, I think on top of the gearbox, but I don't remember exactly I admit. You don't even need special tools, just regular sockets.
If you can't find the appropriate oil then just don't touch it, as long as it doesn't leak. The gearbox (assuming you have the 5 speed) isn't finicky as long as there is oil in it.
Most likely 1364 cm3, it's a '91 model, and the Simcas were replaced in '88 or '89, and choke works flawlessly, I checked and you can feel the engine revving faster, only the plastic cover around it cracked a bit and it annoys the [censored] outta me, I'll most likely glue the plastic back one day.
I mean does the color of the coolant really matter? Maybe they ran out of green one and put blue one in your car, or vice versa, maybe the first owner changed it to green, but it seems to do it's job, though I don't know how full it should be, when I shine a light down the hole I can see the coolant just on level with some metal/wire piece, maybe that's too low or maybe that's how much there should be, nobody knows.
And yeah, for now the transmission works great, except the first gear seems to not be syncronised, so I can't put it into first when the car is moving at all, I know some really old cars had that standard, but this seems to be too modern to not have it, not a big deal for me though, since my second car was one of those old-timey ones which didn't have it, so I'm used to it.
Alcohol in 2019 fuel?
Gasket availability: motor and other
Full Carb rebuild kit with float 'n needles availability ?
citric acid coolant flush?
research alternators...any odd pulleys? any weird ceramic ballast resistors?
window / door hardware: dried out gliders? wobbly cranks?
How's the spare?
Happy New Car....I mean YEAR!
Gasket availability: motor and other
Full Carb rebuild kit with float 'n needles availability ?
citric acid coolant flush?
research alternators...any odd pulleys? any weird ceramic ballast resistors?
window / door hardware: dried out gliders? wobbly cranks?
How's the spare?
Happy New Car....I mean YEAR!
1.) I'm just using regualr 95 petrol
2.) The gaskets are all fine, but if they weren't I can find spares pretty cheply.
3.) No need for a carb rebuild, I don't intent on abusing the car nor installing LPG, if it does fail I'll just repair it myself like I did with my Yugo
4.) I'll probably just drain the old coolant and put in new one, the old one still looks good.
5.) The alternator is weird, there doesn't seem to be any way to tighten it, and the belt does screech randomly, I'll send that to a mechanic rather than breaking it myself.
6.) One of the doors didn't work when I bought it, I removed the door trim the other day and turns out I just had to spray the lock with some WD-40 from the inside to get a tiny lever working again, now every door works flawlessly.
7.)Didn't really check it all that well because it's on the underside of the car and I can't figure out how to pull it out, like a truck spare.
Also you too.
2.) The gaskets are all fine, but if they weren't I can find spares pretty cheply.
3.) No need for a carb rebuild, I don't intent on abusing the car nor installing LPG, if it does fail I'll just repair it myself like I did with my Yugo
4.) I'll probably just drain the old coolant and put in new one, the old one still looks good.
5.) The alternator is weird, there doesn't seem to be any way to tighten it, and the belt does screech randomly, I'll send that to a mechanic rather than breaking it myself.
6.) One of the doors didn't work when I bought it, I removed the door trim the other day and turns out I just had to spray the lock with some WD-40 from the inside to get a tiny lever working again, now every door works flawlessly.
7.)Didn't really check it all that well because it's on the underside of the car and I can't figure out how to pull it out, like a truck spare.
Also you too.
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