bought a demo Mitsubishi PHEV and now I’m stuck with a lemon (warranty denial)

[Superflan]

Hi,

I'll try to make short but if requested I'll post detailed story in a later reply.

In june, we bought a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, one year old and 5000mi as a demo car.

On the very delivery day, the car started to throw errors and limp mode, but it eventually cleared itself and I managed to get it back to the dealer the day after for diagnosis.

They charged the batteries, cleared DTCs, test drive, nothing bad happened and they gave us the vehicle bad. I was mad because they didn't log the issue and I was convinced that it would happen again sooner or later and it would have been previous for techs to know if it's the same DTCs or not.

September, 10000 miles, same issue arises but it didn't clear itself about a couple hours. Car was towed at the dealership for repair. Diagnosis took time and eventually...

Late October. Mitsubishi Motors tech came aboard and claimed that because battery damage under vehicle it will not be covered by Mitsubishi's warranty. The repair estimate is €22000 (yeah, 5 digits). The dealership of course doesn't want to eat the bill.

Pics of the damage where you'll see something that partly ressemble à previous damage repair:

Front half

Back half

Close

Closer (seems like a prior repair)

Closer

Also, each time the problem happened was a couple hours from pressure washing the car (dealer did this before delivering), or a pouring rain drive as usual for September here (I did).

Let's discuss about it

 

[oil_film_movies]

Is that number a Euro money amount? If so, thats like $25,000 U.S. dollars. Wow. That sounds way too high for a new battery.
I remember the previous information at https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u...re-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-malfunction
The dealership attempted a poor repair, right? It was their demo vehicle since new, no other previous owners as far as I can tell. Therefore, their attempted battery repair, really just applying some glue or spackle to the hole, is very poorly done, and is their fault.

 

[maxdustington]

That's brutal. Part of me wants to say that you should have taken a peak at the underside when buying it. Otherwise there is probably an 80% chance they damaged it, realized that they could not get it replaced under warranty and then unloaded it on you. It doesn't really help your case that there are fresh scratches on the battery, though. What are you doing that scratches the underside of the body? You can see the hole in the battery even through the silastic or whatever they put on there.

The fact that you bought a "demo" with electrical problems is hilarious. That car would not be a demo if it had those issues from the get go.

EDIT: I don't think your stuck but you have to go after the dealership, it had problems they should have disclosed that were present the day you took ownership. The previous repair makes it hard for them to deny culpability if you were actually the first titleholder.

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
What are you doing that scratches the underside of the body? You can see the hole in the battery even through the silastic or whatever they put on there.

The fact that you bought a "demo" with electrical problems is hilarious. That car would not be a demo if it had those issues from the get go.

EDIT: I don't think your stuck but you have to go after the dealership, it had problems they should have disclosed that were present the day you took ownership. The previous repair makes it hard for them to deny culpability if you were actually the first titleholder.


Fresh scratches could come from a rock while light off-roading. My wife uses the vehicle for work and sometimes this happens (light touch). Lesson learned I'll order a total skidplate for next car.

When we test-driven the car prior purchase, there was no obvious issue and they stated the car was with no known damage. Obviously, they lied, at least the person who put the patch underneath knows something.

 

[NormanBuntz]

I'd pay for a Carfax report to see if it shows any damage or repairs. I'd go to a different Mitsu dealer and see if they'll run a service history by the VIN. Then do the same at your purchasing dealer. Then hire a lemon law-type attorney and fight the apparently crooked dealership!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Superflan
Fresh scratches could come from a rock while light off-roading. My wife uses the vehicle for work and sometimes this happens (light touch). Lesson learned I'll order a total skidplate for next car.


This is insane. How can you sell a car called the "Outlander" that some scuffs from venturing off the asphalt are damage so severe that it almost makes it a write-off? This is a joke!

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
I'd pay for a Carfax report to see if it shows any damage or repairs. I'd go to a different Mitsu dealer and see if they'll run a service history by the VIN. Then do the same at your purchasing dealer. Then hire a lemon law-type attorney and fight the apparently crooked dealership!

What are French laws about this? American laws I know about, sort of. Reunion Island is part of France & might have different consumer protection laws..


Originally Posted by Superflan
Lesson learned I'll order a total skidplate for next car.When we test-driven the car prior purchase, there was no obvious issue and they stated the car was with no known damage. Obviously, they lied, at least the person who put the patch underneath knows something.
Skid plate for under a battery won't work, since it needs a little air cooling back there. I know many are water cooled internally, but the thermal heat transfer balance might also rely on some air cooling.

Since they said "no known damage", was their also some piece of official paper written on that subject? I seem to remember that here in the U.S. a legal document at purchase says "no known damage" or something.

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
I'd pay for a Carfax report to see if it shows any damage or repairs.

There's no such service as Carfax in France

Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
I'd go to a different Mitsu dealer and see if they'll run a service history by the VIN. Then do the same at your purchasing dealer.

I did because it was first towed to a different city. Same dealer, but they have 3 locations. He showed me the VIN history on screen. Nothing that I was unaware of. But the first service back in June doesn't mention anything aside from "annual maintenance". I was forced to get the vehicle towed to the original dealership because no EV tech was available (for weeks) to diagnose the issue.
Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
Then hire a lemon law-type attorney and fight the apparently crooked dealership!

My insurance policy includes a coverage for this, I opened a case.

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
What are French laws about this? American laws I know about, sort of. Reunion Island is part of France & might have different consumer protection laws..

Basically a 2-year lemon law, but the procedure could last from one month to a year to get things sorted if it goes to court.

Originally Posted by Oil_film_movies
Since they said "no known damage", was their also some piece of official paper written on that subject? I seem to remember that here in the U.S. a legal document at purchase says "no known damage" or something.

I will reread the purchase agreement, I think it should be there. There's a lemon law hint in there too, it's an obligation for vendors to display the French lemon law excerpt in the purchase contract

 

[eljefino]

Lawyering up is universally the best advice, the world over, in a situation like this.

The first step after you sign with a lawyer is to have him arrange a rental car for you to drive on their nickel while this gets sorted out. That will create a motivation for Mitsubishi to care about your case.

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
I'd pay for a Carfax report to see if it shows any damage or repairs. I'd go to a different Mitsu dealer and see if they'll run a service history by the VIN. Then do the same at your purchasing dealer. Then hire a lemon law-type attorney and fight the apparently crooked dealership!


He's on an island in the Indian Ocean off Madagascar. I doubt CarFax covers that area and most likely the legal system for consumer protection is different than in the US. While their are scrapes on the floor pan I don't see how it would affect the batteries unless they were really slammed hard, but the floor pan doesn't look like it was heavily damaged. Is the battery above the patched hole in the floor pan leaking? The price for replacement batteries seems insane. I think you have something else causing your problems and local Mitsubishi organization is taking the easy way out and blaming you. What are the codes when you have the problem? That's the first place to start. Good luck! Or hopefully your government has some consumer protection for new vehicle that are lemons.

Whimsey

 

[Whipcitywrencher]

How does the car run?
More alarming than those small scratches underneath and what was obviously a bad fix is the wide open lines , (No Cover) on them.
I don't get that.

 

[Superflan]

Those scratches just removed coating, there's no actual dent in the metal. Only the patched scratch that I didn't do seems to actually have a dent or a hole.

They did not inspect the inside of the battery. It will be surely done at the first independent technical assessment that will be ordered by my insurance company.

For the rental car thing, actually there's no such law that allows this that way. It's only if it goes to court and the vendor loses that he will be obliged to refund you the rental money you have spent (keep the bills).

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by rollinpete
How does the car run?

As of today, maybe it runs again like the first time. It's a random issue.

Originally Posted by rollinpete
More alarming than those small scratches underneath and what was obviously a bad fix is the wide open lines , (No Cover) on them.
I don't get that.

Yeah I was like... I had no clue and wouldn't have driven the car without an accessory to prevent everything being snapped of. Even those orange electric cables are so vulnerable.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Superflan
When we test-driven the car prior purchase, there was no obvious issue and they stated the car was with no known damage. Obviously, they lied, at least the person who put the patch underneath knows something.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Since they said "no known damage", was their also some piece of official paper written on that subject? I seem to remember that here in the U.S. a legal document at purchase says "no known damage" or something.
Dealers around here seem to be very specific and clear when they get a car at auction or on trade that they don't want to fix and just want to flip. They make sure they have "AS-IS" in the title and description. Sounds like they sold OP a "demo" and I've never heard of anyone buying a demo as is. They're trying to use OP as a patsy because one of their employees damaged the battery, and it's a $25k repair. I just hope there is some way OP was protected, but who knows what the laws are there. The evidence is damming though, and I am no lawyer but I don't think the dealership would fair well in court. They're going through the motions with the warranty for the chance that OP has more money than sense, needs the car, etc and pays up. They're stalling and hoping to shake him off.

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Skid plate for under a battery won't work, since it needs a little air cooling back there. I know many are water cooled internally, but the thermal heat transfer balance might also rely on some air cooling.
You could totally make some rails and bolt them to the battery mounting points, that's probably what Mitz should have done.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Since they said "no known damage", was their also some piece of official paper written on that subject? I seem to remember that here in the U.S. a legal document at purchase says "no known damage" or something.
Dealers around here seem to be very specific and clear when they get a car at auction or on trade that they don't want to fix and just want to flip. They make sure they have "AS-IS" in the title and description. Sounds like they sold OP a "demo" and I've never heard of anyone buying a demo as is. They are on the hook for the damaged battery, not OP or Mitz but won't pony up until they are threatened with legal action.

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by Whimsey
I think you have something else causing your problems and local Mitsubishi organization is taking the easy way out and blaming you. What are the codes when you have the problem? That's the first place to start. Good luck!


I asked for the DTCs and I still don't have them. Unlike the first time, they now pretends that they don't have to disclose the raw diagnosis report, as per Mitsubishi instructions for all cars. Well, I'm just asking for DTCs for my vehicle, no sorcery here... out of luck I asked Mitsubishi France directly because now they probably have a copy because the dealership sent to us a warranty request including the electric diagnosis report.

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
They're trying to use OP as a patsy because one of their employees damaged the battery, and it's a $25k repair. I just hope there is some way OP was protected, but who knows what the laws are there. The evidence is damming though, and I am no lawyer but I don't think the dealership would fair well in court. They're going through the motions with the warranty for the chance that OP has more money than sense, needs the car, etc and pays up. They're stalling and hoping to shake him off.


Yeah basically they knows that for such a new car, a total insurance policy was subscribed by the owner, so they even suggested that I could get things sorted quick by filing a claim, paying the insurance deductible and getting away with a repaired vehicle.

I will not do this. Even if the deductible is only €800 in my case, I'll have a responsible incident that will make my insurance score worse. I don't want to endorse the problem even if it will make me save money and time, because the vehicle will be stuck while the case is sorted and it's a missing vehicle at home and work. I'm fed up

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by Superflan

Yeah basically they knows that for such a new car, a total insurance policy was subscribed by the owner, so they even suggested that I could get things sorted quick by filing a claim, paying the insurance deductible and getting away with a repaired vehicle.

I will not do this. Even if the deductible is only €800 in my case, I'll have a responsible incident that will make my insurance score worse. I don't want to endorse the problem even if it will make me save money and time, because the vehicle will be stuck while the case is sorted and it's a missing vehicle at home and work. I'm fed up
Lol, I would have told them I was planning to spend the deductible on legal fees instead.

 

[Superflan]

I did

 

[JimPghPA]

If the metal is aluminum those scratches that look shiny could be old. Aluminum does not rust like steel.