Both sides of the isle

[drive it forever]

This thread will probablly be locked because this subject breaks the rules but who cares. IMO it's both parties that are more or less equally responsable for the upcoming subject called CRUDE. Yes crude. The democrats dont want the U.S. drilling and building new gas refineries and the republicans let the oil companies merge a few years ago that has monopolized the market which has led to no incentive to build more refining capacity and exploration of oil because that would drive down the cost of crude. Folks, the lobbyist have won both sides of the isle on this one. We as americans shouldnt be putting up with this crap and we need to send a clear message to those in washington on both sides of the isle about this problem. Anyone have any suggestions how we achieve the goal? One of my suggestions is we americans need to flood our elected officials with mail, emails and phone calls to do something about this problem they dont want to do a darn thing about.

 

[kenw]

isle= small island

aisle= an open space for passage between seats, shelving, etc.


but yes, let your voice be heard. Loudly! Be a royal pain and don't give up.

 

[dkcase]

edit. No longer relevant

 

[OMCWankel]

Very good point, labman

A new refinery is a 20-30 year investment, minimum. They must be confidant of having feedstock for that period of time. If world production has actually peaked, the feedstock would only be there if you out-bid someone else, leading to high costs.

Maybe the oil companies know something we can only guess at. Scary thoughts indeed

 

[PandaBear]

I seriously doubt politicans, both Democrats and Republicans, will give a rat about people flooding them with complaints, or else this method would have work already.

Bomb them with contribution for the next election, now we are talking.

Seriously, as price goes up we will find alternative, not a matter of if but when. Like the big jump in fuel economy in 80s and all the energy conserving appliances, home insulation, HVAC, solar water heater in college dorm cafe, and now the gridded solar panel.

Just by allowing lean burn will raise fuel economy by some, but it causes smog.

We will survive this just like the last energy crisis and came out of it better off (in a verylong run).

 

[pitzel]

Yup PandaBear, I sit here, very saddened by the fact that we have the technology to produce 50mpg mid-sized cars (VW TDI's, Honda Accord TDI, MB E320 TDI, hybrids, etc.), have the technology to burn coal 20% more efficiently (supercritical boilers), have the technology to reduce aircraft fuel burn by 50% (CFM56 engine versus the old JT8), have the technology to cut home heating/cooling costs by half (geothermal, insulation/windows, compact fluorescents, on-demand water heating), have the technology to allow half the office-confined workforce to work from home (telecommutting, DSL lines, etc.), have the technology to cut energy consumption dramatically in the retail sector (self-serve checkouts), but due to our economic system, and more importantly, our 'value' systems, we don't take advantage to nearly the extent we could.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by drive it forever:
I did waste my morning typing up letters to my congressmen on the oil debacle. Just complaining about it to family and friends gets nothing done but hopefully complaining to my elected officials along with others makes them aware we dont like it.

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The trick is to get them to care that you don't like it.

 

[Schmoe]

Any of ya'll remember this same stuff in the 70's? What happened? Oil got cheaper and everybody forgot about it. This will work out the same way. One thing I did read that I thought was rather unique and very rare, was that EPA is rolling back the requirements of low sulfur and emissions from refineries in that area until the end of the year. First time EPA has ever done that. At least they are thinking.

 

[michaelc80]

quote:

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Originally posted by Schmoe:
Any of ya'll remember this same stuff in the 70's? What happened? Oil got cheaper and everybody forgot about it. This will work out the same way. One thing I did read that I thought was rather unique and very rare, was that EPA is rolling back the requirements of low sulfur and emissions from refineries in that area until the end of the year. First time EPA has ever done that. At least they are thinking.

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Too true about the 70's. The long lines at the gas pumps. High prices, shortages. Then the 80's and 90's when it was plentiful.

 

[mechtech]

WE haven't built a refinery since the '70s.
Costs, regulations, and public resistance to having one in their back yard, made it cheaper to use other country's refineries.
The costs are insane to build one, now.

 

[eljefino]

Careful, you're falling into stereotypes.

I personally believe they aren't building refineries as a result of business decisions made several years ago when it wasn't perceived as worth it. But when interviewed today they'll blame "those pesky environmentalists" because it's an easy scapegoat.

Similarly the mergers happened because they tried to see if it would fly and it slithered through. Some concessions were made, like Equilon could also sell Texaco Havoline motor oil for a couple of years (and it wasn't quite as good

) and some regions had to divest of company-owned filling stations.

 

[labman]

Unfortunately I don't think the government can do that much. The last thing we need is to push the government into short range policies that will make the problem worse before too long. The only thing would be far sighted, forced energy conservation, and the people are hardly putting up with what the government is doing now on that. People need to face the fact that the days of cheap energy are coming to an end. America will no longer have access to unlimited oil for little more than the cost of producing it.

The scary thing is that part of the reason the oil companies have not built more refineries is that they may not be sure of having any oil to refine. They could easily evade the tree huggers by building the refineries elsewhere. Companies that make bad business decisions go out of business.

 

[drive it forever]

quote:

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Originally posted by kenw:
isle= small island

aisle= an open space for passage between seats, shelving, etc.


but yes, let your voice be heard. Loudly! Be a royal pain and don't give up.

---

I need also complain about our lousy public education system while I'm at it also. I did waste my morning typing up letters to my congressmen on the oil debacle. Just complaining about it to family and friends gets nothing done but hopefully complaining to my elected officials along with others makes them aware we dont like it.

 

[Steve S]

The politicians are most always reelected so what is the big whoop.

 

[NovaMan]

quote:

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Paraphrase of pitzel:
I'm very saddened by the fact that we have the technology to reduce energy consumption significantly, "but due to our economic system, and more importantly, our 'value' systems, we don't take advantage to nearly the extent we could."

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Many energy-saving technologies and devices cost more up front and "pay for themselves" in a few years. However, not everyone can afford the higher initial cost, and it seems like businesses only look ahead as far as the end of the quarter these days.

OTOH, I can't think of a better economic system than capitalism.
To what kind of by value system are you referring?


Please don't think I'm trying to pick a fight; I'm just throwing in my $0.02 and trying to understand your point a little better.

 

[pitzel]

quote:

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Originally posted by NovaMan:

To what kind of by value system are you referring?

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For example, there seems to be a significant stigma attached to telecommutting, in terms of one's career prospects, and prospects for advancement and promotion in workplaces.

Many in North America have the attitude that working 'harder', and 'longer' but not 'smarter' is the way to go.

The concept of short term pain for long term gain seems to have gone out the window. This has led to underinvestment in energy efficiency in general.

The fact of employment is valued more highly in our society than the fact of making a productive contribution to society. This causes, mainly new mothers, to return to the workforce prematurely, instead of giving their new child the best start in life possible through early nuturing. And unduly stigmatizes individuals who have been out of the workforce for whatever reasons.

etc., etc.

quote:

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Please don't think I'm trying to pick a fight; I'm just throwing in my $0.02 and trying to understand your point a little better.

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Glad you asked.