Bolt(s) holding timing chain cover & Water pump and accessory brackets, weeping coolant, again

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2,205
Location
california
Mopar LA-318 5.2 liter v8 in a B van

Aircraft permatex worked for 3 years on the main culprit, a 6 inch long bolt holding on the steering pump spacer and air pump brackets to water pump and timing chain cover.

I've got a new 7 inch grade 5 3/8-16 bolt ordered, the ancient original 6 inch grade 5 bolt only has ~ 1/2 inch of threads grabbing the block



Need to remove old aircraft permatex through 5.5 inches of components so a future sealant has a hope of working. Hoping to avoid further disassembly.

Future sealant unknown at this point. recommendations?

Very annoyed with this. Only reason I unthreaded these bolts was to remove and reseal the nice and quiet but leaky Saginaw power steering pump and get rid of all the Lucas PS stop leak inside of it.

Am drained of coolant at the moment, awaiting 7 inch 3/8-16 bolt
 
Messages
5,162
Location
Ohio
Your sealant is good for the job. I am assuming that bolt penetrates the cooling passage. Replacing the bolt is a good idea but I would have stayed with the original length. With a seven inch bolt, you likely will have an extra inch in the cooling passage which the threads will corrode and you will have a very difficult time if you ever had to remove that bolt in the future if it doesn't break on you. A half inch of threads grabbing is more than enough to handle the job along with the other bolts helping. I know from experience some of those bolts on the front of a 318 can be a PITA to remove sometimes.
 
Last edited:

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
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2,205
Location
california
I wonder if permatex changed the AFAG formula. I have a container bought in 2017, and I have a container that my dad had, likely 15+ years old.

the newer container the contents are much more runny than I remember it being, the older thicker as I remembered the 2017 container when it was new.

A drip of the newer 24 hours after exposure is still as wet/ same consistency as in the container.

Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket No. 3 Sealant is a dark
reddish brown, viscous liquid with a characteristic alcoholic
odor. It is a slow drying, liquid that changes to a pliable, tacky
film through solvent evaporation.


the humidity has been less than 20% here for the last several days, but it does not appear as if AFAG requires moisture to cure like some other sealants.

I'll be trying to clean out the threads in block, old with some rubbing alcohol.

 
Messages
6,878
Location
Roanoke Virginia
That’s a good sealant you have used surprised it failed. For the water pump is use Permatex Water Pump and Thermostat Housing and for the timing components since oil goes thru those either Permatex Black Maximum Oil Resistance or Permatex Ultra Gray
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
My permatex Aviation Form a gasket, appears to be compromised.

What I removed from the receptacles today, had not gotten the slightest bit thicker.

Rubbing alcohol and swabs twist tied to Bamboo skewers and a long bottle brush cleaned out most of the old product(s)

The 6 inch bolt is able to be pushed in until the hex head is 1/4" away from touching the PS pump bracket, not 1/2" as earlier written, and this is without the washer.

So less than 1/4 inch of threads would be able to seal this, yet have been sealing this, for many years, with issues much of the time..

The threads in block, feel like they are ~1 " deep.

I am able to shove a 12" flexible bottle brush to its hilt into water jacket.

Watch the dang power steering pump leak if/whenever I get the coolant to stop leaking.

Feeling the urge to swing a sledgehammer at an inanimate object, and missing on the first 20 swings.

Also just got a possibly used Motorad thermostat, delivered in a Stant Superstat box.....
freaking Ebay.
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
Permatex high temperature thread sealant is on the new bolts holding the water pump to timing chain cover to block.

I left a blob of the sealant out overnight on the wood table
it was not cured at all, 24 hours later.

Only 65f today max, low 50's overnight
says full cure in 24 hours at 72f.

Have not refilled with coolant yet.

Perhaps I need to aim a low wattage heater at the bolt head /water pump first.
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
Well, when all else fails read the instructions. no wonder that blob on wood was totally uncured.

Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant
....
TYPICAL CURING PERFORMANCE
Cure speed vs. temperature
The rate of cure will depend on the ambient temperature. Full cure is attainable in 24 hours at room temperature, 72F (22C), or 1 hour at 200F (93C).
Cure speed vs. substrate
The rate of cure will depend on the material used. Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant will react faster and stronger with Active Metals. However, Inactive Metals will require the use of an activator (Surface Prep) to obtain maximum strength and cure speed at room temperature.

Active Metals Inactive Metals
Soft Steel Iron Stainless Steel
Copper Anodized Surfaces
Brass Titanium
Manganese Zinc
Bronze Pure Aluminum
Nickel Bright Platings
Aluminum Alloy Cadmium

Cure speed vs. activator
Where cure speed is unacceptably long, or large gaps are present, applying an activator (Surface Prep) to the surface will improve cure speed. Assemblies will fully cure in 24 hours with activator.

CURED INFORMATION
(Cured 72 hours @ 75F)
Pressure Resistance (psi) 10,000
Temperature Range F -65 to +400
Breakaway torque (in.-lb.) 40
Maximum recommended pipe size* 2" NPT
* May be used on threads larger than 2” but all threads must be
activated with Surface Prep Activator and time for full cure extended to
48 hours (Pipe burst pressure after 96 hours). Heat may be required
for removal.
source:


I got a little 200 watt heater under the area, and am gonna go at least 48 hours before filling with coolant.

Wish I read this earlier, and got the 'activator'
 
Messages
7,425
Location
California
I’d use an anaerobic thread sealant. Permatex High Performance Thread Sealant. Bolt prep is important and try to get the bolts/holes as bone dry as possible.
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
Removed all the old sealants from the another WP bolt with a wire wheel. Yuck.


20201208_144256.jpg
20201205_134240.jpg


The 7 inch bolt had a few more threads cut into it, and was shortened to ~6.5 inches. The top photo is a different 5.5 inch bolt. I cut a 7 inch bolt to 5.75 inches and threaded it. The others did not show corrosion. I found plenty of other things to do, and have still not filled the block with coolant.

I have nightmares about filling the block and a fire hydrant starts shooting out the holes.

If it leaks again I'm doing the teflon tape thing, and if that fails then screw it I am JB Welding the effers.
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
Well the pitted bolt is 32 years old. I vaguely recall seeing some pitting in 2009 when I rebuilt the cooling system.

My engine Now has Beefy grounds, but before my ownership the grounds were pretty dismal, and when i got it the color of the coolant was just barely green

i will add a braided strap between radiator mounting bolt and some nearby sheetmetal just in case the radiator itself is not well grounded.
 

wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
All buttoned up and I got upto full temperature.

No leaks, so far.

The 9 or 11 year old all aluminum radiator started weeping a 9 months of age where the tubes meet bottom tank.

1 bars leak tab stopped it.

While radiator was empty I cleaned the area well, thinned some JB-Weld with rubbing alcohol, sucked it into a syringe and filled in the area where the weeping occurred on both sides.

If it still weeps here, I wasted some JB weld, a syringe, and half an hour, and out comes a gingerroot stop leak tab.

If it does not weep, Whohoo.
 

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wrcsixeight

Thread starter
Messages
2,205
Location
california
Dang straight, but more like shade tarp work
Can Pullem tighter than a guitar string, so they're nearly silent in a strong wind.

Last two weeks I resealed and repainted the Saginaw steering pump, replaced the steering gear and steering shaft coupler, high pressure and return lines, added magnetic inline filter, hard mounted, mounted but not yet wired, a second 50/120 alternator, Achieving highly respectable pulley alignment, while Correcting that which has been horrible for a long while.

Many new hoses, vacuum and fuel and PVC. Shockingly hard old hoses.
Repaired broken nipples on cannister purge solenoid with JBweld.
Replaced Ignition coil and reterminated its wires.

Removed the failed seal of my Valve cover oil fill cap and replaced with 2 stacked modified Silicone ADBVs from previous Fram Ultras.

As I type My warm red sweet TX fluid is draining through its drainplug, overnight, and from where the external spin on filter(XG16) was located, and where a new one will soon reside. I've got 7 quarts of ATF+4 and a bottle of Lubegard red to go back in.


Also have 3 quarts of Schaeffers 293 75w-90 for my 9.25, and some Permatex designed for gear oil to seal the cover.

Hopefully I can resist JB welding multiple large aluminum finned heatsinks to it. and painting it all flat black
 
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