BMW i4 M50 overheats with restricted power and charging during 1000 km challenge

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UncleDave said:
We need a solar thread. Solar is a distraction from the thread, but always an interesting debate.

One could easily build a case to support success or failure when they get to pick the metrics.
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I would be interested to know how many of the 3.2 percent that have these things, could honestly call them a success from a financial standpoint.
 
billt460 said:
Solar power has been a long term, expensive failure for the American taxpayer. That has only managed to achieve a 3.2% "success" in over half a century. That's a plan alright... A plan for an expensive disaster. And it has played out.

And you're wrong. GM would have survived. In the absence of a bailout, GM would each have been forced to file for bankruptcy like any other company in their circumstances.
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At the expense of workers. Government job is not to teach lessons, but to protect and provide quality of life for workers. It is not only GM workers that would suffer. You personally would! It is social contract.

Solar is not simple technology. It cannot succeed without government. Solutions to problems are going to be more complex and expensive. Same goes for space race. How much money did we spend on that, and yet I cannot buy ticket on expedia to go to the Moon.
 
edyvw said:
At the expense of workers. Government job is not to teach lessons, but to protect and provide quality of life for workers. It is not only GM workers that would suffer. You personally would! It is social contract.

Solar is not simple technology. It cannot succeed without government. Solutions to problems are going to be more complex and expensive. Same goes for space race. How much money did we spend on that, and yet I cannot buy ticket on expedia to go to the Moon.
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Jobs are not guaranteed to anyone in a capatilist society. And if ANY company cannot succeed without the government continually pumping money into them, like solar, then they deserve to fail.
 
UncleDave said:
Lots of poeple should have gone to jail in the sub prime scandal as well.

The BEV and Solar credits are a thimble in an ocean compared to 179 deductions and half ton trucks/ vehicles.
We (used to) basically subsidize the whole vehicle the year its bought.

Madoff was private robbery.
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Yep, the amount of subsidy on trucks is absolutely ridiculous, and every IT guy employed at NORTHCOM/NORAD here has it.
 
Most complex large scale things could not exist without government support.
The Military exists because of the government and private business. Now there's a subsidy.
 
billt460 said:
I would be interested to know how many of the 3.2 percent that have these things, could honestly call them a success from a financial standpoint.
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Well, not sure how things worked south of the border, but early adopters here in Ontario as well as in Germany received absolutely obscene FIT subsidies, like $0.80/kWh sort of obscene. They were a huge profit centre for early adopters. When the FIT program was scrapped up here, adoption collapsed. Net Metering is what replaced it and that's nowhere near as lucrative when you are lucky to get 10% CF out of your rooftop setup and it's basically useless in the winter, which, if you've gone with a heat pump to try and cut down or eliminate natural gas usage, is when it would be beneficial (in addition to running the AC in the summer).
 
billt460 said:
I would be interested to know how many of the 3.2 percent that have these things, could honestly call them a success from a financial standpoint.
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3.2% of what?

Home PV installs?
Commercial PV installs?
Panel farms?
concentrators? like ivanpah? or like trough systems?
Water heating?
Pool heaters? (I got an ROI on pool solar in 1 season)
RV/Mobil?
Giant batteries that stabilize grids?

All these things are " solar"

The ROi has improved tremendously on all these over time, expect for maybe Ivanpah - these things are dogs that never make theirs anticipated rating where a panel farm has no moving parts and is dead simple and cheap. A trough system seem to work pretty well.
 
edyvw said:
Solar is not simple technology. It cannot succeed without government. Solutions to problems are going to be more complex and expensive. Same goes for space race. How much money did we spend on that, and yet I cannot buy ticket on expedia to go to the Moon.
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I'd disagree with that. As a technology, PV solar is actually very simple, you have the PV modules and an inverter. Where complexity enters the picture is managing solar, particularly at a grid level. Remember, we had small PV modules on calculators when we were young, it's not a complex technology.

The reason solar needed subsidies is because it's inherently extremely energy diffuse, like wind. So, early production costs (before it was outsourced to China) meant that module price was also expensive and so FIT's were enacted to accelerate adoption. Now that we have Chinese slave labour panels that are dramatically less expensive, net metering can be sufficient to cover the cost and provide some profit for those choosing to purchase them. There are still grid management costs above and beyond that though and I'd argue that even NEM is too generous, because none of the other generators are paid full retail, so why should Joe Homeowner? They should receive wholesale, just like everyone else, and delivery should be on total kWh moved, not NET kWh.
 
OVERKILL said:
Well, not sure how things worked south of the border, but early adopters here in Ontario as well as in Germany received absolutely obscene FIT subsidies, like $0.80/kWh sort of obscene. They were a huge profit centre for early adopters. When the FIT program was scrapped up here, adoption collapsed. Net Metering is what replaced it and that's nowhere near as lucrative when you are lucky to get 10% CF out of your rooftop setup and it's basically useless in the winter, which, if you've gone with a heat pump to try and cut down or eliminate natural gas usage, is when it would be beneficial (in addition to running the AC in the summer).
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I'm willing to bet when the government here stops pumping money into solar, the same thing will occur.
 
billt460 said:
I'm willing to bet when the government here stops pumping money into solar, the same thing will occur.
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Perhaps. It all depends on the ROI.

If power companies keep up the increases - it will become more of a bargain.

We heard the same about tesla - when the incentives go away they will stop selling. They didnt.
 
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UncleDave said:
Perhaps. It all depends on the ROI.

If power companies keep up the increases - it will become more of a bargain.

We heard the same about tesla - when the incentives go away they will stop selling. They didnt.
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Aye, but it did happen here. As soon as FIT was dropped, adoption rate tanked, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. A BEV makes sense when gas prices are high-ish, they really don't need incentives, I continue to see more and more of them, the payback, particularly if you do a ton of in-town driving, is much quicker than NEM solar (at least in Ontario). My e-tron would have paid for its cost differential in less than 5 years IIRC, in reality, I should have kept it, despite my wife hating it. I'll probably end up with an i4 M50 in the future, I loved it and BMW will eventually get it sorted. Only wild card is if Stellantis comes out with something that's faster and just as nice.
 
OVERKILL said:
Aye, but it did happen here. As soon as FIT was dropped, adoption rate tanked, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. A BEV makes sense when gas prices are high-ish, they really don't need incentives, I continue to see more and more of them, the payback, particularly if you do a ton of in-town driving, is much quicker than NEM solar (at least in Ontario). My e-tron would have paid for its cost differential in less than 5 years IIRC, in reality, I should have kept it, despite my wife hating it. I'll probably end up with an i4 M50 in the future, I loved it and BMW will eventually get it sorted. Only wild card is if Stellantis comes out with something that's faster and just as nice.
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Without subsidy the NE is a bad place for solar, very hard to get an ROI. Not surprised.
In Cal/AZ/NV subsidy wont matter as much - the roi is there and getting better. Cost per KWH is skyrocketing.
I pay what hawaii does.

I like the M50, but am scared by the brushed motors and hot weather performance.
The short is cool, no doubt a beautiful ride.
 
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